I came to the conclusion that the game’s automated systems which handle “inactivity” of players - punish quite many good players for what the system mindlessly considers “inactivity”

[RunaDacino]

It kinda makes me wish we had a community who wouldn’t vandalize stuff, otherwise we could come together on one mutually edited google sheet and keep adding ARB/GRB/etc data going

“In a single vehicle I lived for X seconds and earn Y score and post-battle itemized vehicle breakdown said I had Activity%”

Would make it much, much easier to get quantitative & predictive functions for modes other than sim. In sim it’s a bit easier due to the maxcap of 15 minutes removing a variable, so all we needed was one very angry person to collect hundreds of examples to complain to gaijin that activity maxes out at 92% per cycle no matter how much score you earn (gaijin said “working as intended.”)

[Normandy_Corsair]

I was with you until you started saying “good and skillful” players are the ones purely doing PvE (who coincidentally also have penta-negative levels of K/D)

You seem to think that being “good” at the game is manipulating the systems to give you the most RP/SL, but that simply isn’t the case.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Fins_FinsT

And why you want the round over? What good do you get from ending it?

Going to the next round and not being subjected to mind numbing gameplay of flying around pointlessly waiting for your team to catch the last guy who is playing passive presumably

@Fins_FinsT

And the win - is either certain, in which case you can just quit and go next round yourself,

The win becomes less certain when you start making the numbers more fair for the enemy… leaving matches also immediately cuts off your RP/SL gain as you are very much aware.

@Fins_FinsT

and then it’s fair game and sound tactic on the last guy’s part, which you should respect.

It depends what exact tactics you are referring to.

@Fins_FinsT

But that’s entirely different point. My 1st post is saying that IF the last guy does not want to fight - it’s a good thing for everyone who is playing to earn RP. Simple as that.

Only if they are able to quickly manipulate situation to be in their favor regarding grinding, such as bombing or hitting ground targets. This is something that a lot of aircraft simply can not do.

@Fins_FinsT

As for your proposed options, they are not so good. “Crash to end the game”: doing this applies full SL repair cost. Why do it? “Let enemies shoot you down” - the same.

SL repair costs are not a valid enough reason to intentionally drag out games.

@Fins_FinsT

“Land and jump out” - this one is OK only if you know you can safely land. Sadly, those days, it’s very often not the case: there are players who will destroy you when you’d try to land. Vultures, the old WT word for 'em - they prey on airfields, both with and without AA on them, to get easy kills.

So your strategy here is to break game ToS by playing 100% passively, avoiding all conflict OR trying to land on airfield to J out if you think there is a chance you will die doing so, just because you might have to pay 6000SL? With all this math you are throwing around, have you ever considered that wasting 10-15 minutes of time running from losing 6000SL removes your ability (and therefore creates an opportunity cost) to go to ANOTHER GAME and earn many magnitudes of SL above that 6k figure? Even if you end up dying in both games?

@Fins_FinsT

And yes, the other team can and should keep hitting bases, ground units and NPC planes when that last guy is running away.

MANY planes cannot do this and are effectively useless/pointless once the enemy opposition runs out.

@Fins_FinsT

That is what i am talking about, man - that “last guy running away” and surviving for longer actually gives the other team ideal conditions to get more RP and SL from a match. They should thank him, if RP or SL is what they want.

Again, and what you clearly do not get, 1. this does not matter if said user does not care about maximizing RP/SL reward in exchange for them having less fun and 2. This doesn’t matter if said users are not CAPABLE of doing the actions you presented.

@Mordillo66

If I interpret these calculations and conclusions correct, it only shows one problem to me:
The reward system doesn’t fit the current state of ARB at all.

Yes.

@Mordillo66

The primary goal of ARB is to win a battle. And the reward system has to follow this goal. Actually it doesn’t.

I agree.

@Fins_FinsT

It doesn’t fit completely, but it does fit certain purposes. It’s different. That’s why my 1st post uses specific phraze i used to describe this problem - not “doesn’t fit ARB”, but rather “the game’s automated routines to deal with “inactive” players, and majority of players in the game - all see such “combat avoidance” as something bad. In error.”.

It is exactly the game’s “inactivity” reporting tool, reward suppression subsystem and “potential bans” which needs revision. Not the entire reward system. Because there are important reasons RP and SL are awarded the way they are awarded, and changing them any much - would be inadvisable.

Here’s an example of what you say here being true. The system USED to reward you for “passive participation” meaning things like flying near enemy planes would trickle activity time/rp/sl to you invisibly because the game assumed you were baiting, defensive flying, etc and therefore participating and therefore would reward you. Nowadays you can go 15 minutes doing the craziest defensive flying of your life and earn literally and exactly 0 RP because you never got to get your own guns on something. It’s ridiculous.

[iboopy]

I think being fired at, or within the vicinity of other planes should count as activity.
However, as to the rest of this thread, landing timer is great, it stops camping (most of the time) and the slashed RP rewards of playing giga passively can hurt strike aircraft, but prevents people being dicks all game who sideclimb to space.

[Real_K_Soze]

@GNDM_Panzer

I’m just not convinced to take these graphs at face-value so I will review them at a later time and compare/contrast when I’m ready to.

The fellow player is correct - the % ratio of activity is a result of time and score. Meaning the longer you play the less activity you have with the same score.

I played yesterday a prop match in which i played ~ 22 minutes. 2 air kills and a base kill is in short matches a guarantee for 85-95% activity. In this match i got just 77%.

• I killed a bomber at ~ 6 minutes, waited for the base respawn, killed a fresh base after ~ 13 minutes. I played actually 1 vs 5 but could not go low as i was looking for an enemy player with 0 mission score.

• In addition i just saw always just 2 of them and i don’t want to get jumped out of nowhere. I got blind hunted but saw no contrails coming up.

• Their bomber crashed and the 2 squadded La-5s ran out of fuel and managed to crash whilst landing; the 0 point guy was one of them 😎. As i knew where the last 2 enemies were (ground pounding) i went for the most dangerous plane first - the other guy managed to crash too. Game over after my last kill after 22 minutes.

[Real_K_Soze]

@Mordillo66

The primary goal of ARB is to win a battle. And the reward system has to follow this goal. Actually it doesn’t.

Yeah - but somehow the primary goal is usually out of your individual control and you have to rely on a mix of pure luck, experience and team composition.

Imho you might have to take a step back and acknowledge that the MM decides the majority of your matches - meaning the nation allocation is way more decisive than individual skill - so whilst the rewards are allocated to single players - real decisive game play (like killing the enemy top player or most dangerous aircraft) is underrated like hell.

I sit currently on a 26 (!!!) match win streak - in just 6 of the matches i was able to decide (5) or influence (1) the outcome (5 x last survivor, 1 time winning a 1 vs 3 turn fight).

So if we have a common understanding that winning a battle is the primary goal - how is it that i can get away with 26 victories in a row and bring 2 wagers (10 victories) to pay the full amount of 250k SL each through without losing a single aircraft???

Edit: I extended my win strike to 36 wins in a row - and lost my 37th match thx to a totally pathetic USSR/GER/UK team - and lost my 1st plane in this series.

[Fins_FinsT]

@Real_K_Soze

I played yesterday a prop match in which i played ~ 22 minutes. 2 air kills and a base kill is in short matches a guarantee for 85-95% activity. In this match i got just 77%.

Yes, activity slowly goes down like that, but 95% multiplied by 10 mins is still far less RP from “time played” - which is the main source of base RP - than 77% multiplied by 24 mins. And you can’t much increase this “activity drain”, the way i see it, because if you do, then everybody in longer matches will suffer - including people who go RTB (and thus score 0 for several minutes), people who do longer duels, people who hunt that “stubborn to die” last guy, etc. So, it’s quite complicated; current drain of it, i think, is close to optimal, all things considered.

Another example to confirm your numbers, too: i just did an F-105D full-duraiton 24:15 match, bombed two bases (each with a single-base load, so 1 RTB was also done), nothing else - and it’s 59% activity still. Few games prior, though, i did the same thing - two bases, 1 RTB between them, same F-105D, - and the game was won by my team in 10:25 “time played”, resulting in 86% activity for those very same “scorable” actions taken.

Comparing those numbers, we can calculate that if 2nd (“quick”) match is 100% activity x time-played, then 1st match, with everything else being equal, earns 159.7% activity x time-played, indicating reduced, but still major, increase of RP from longer matches.

[Real_K_Soze]

No offense mate, but everybody with some experience is aware of how RPs are calculated, and how you can maximize your RP gain in Air RB by extending the game duration.

With reference to your title:

• It is imho obvious that there are no temp bans (=no game access) for playing the game in a passive way, meaning that somebody has scored and uses the full 25 minutes to maximize his RP income. So these report messages might annoy you, but they have no consequences.

• Your other conclusions or recommendations are highly questionable (at best) as individual aspects of each player have to be considered.

You replied to my post regarding activity ratios:

1. The goal was to show the negative effects of dragging out matches regarding the ratio itself. This is quite important as daily, special or BP tasks often have minimum requirement regarding battle activity - sometimes connected to a victory.

2. Therefore you have depending on the match itself often the choice between staying in the match to get additional mission score or to help to secure a win - or to score fast and relatively high, land and j out and leave in order to fulfill the requirements.

Final recommendation:

• If you want to help players: Create a thread in the Academy section “Players helping Players” and emphasize there the connection between scoring during a match and staying alive.

• I recommend to keep it shorter and try to simplify the content - use spoilers if you want to go into details. Continuing with this thread is a dead end.

[Fins_FinsT]

@Real_K_Soze

everybody with some experience is aware of how RPs are calculated

Nope. Not literally everyone, at very least.

@Real_K_Soze

It is imho obvious that there are no temp bans (=no game access) for playing the game in a passive way

It is not. I was told by other people that such bans exist. I see no reason why i should trust you more than them.

@Real_K_Soze

Your other conclusions or recommendations are highly questionable (at best) as individual aspects of each player have to be considered

I would not post them if i’d think the same as you do, here. I agree to disagree.

@Real_K_Soze

daily, special or BP tasks often have minimum requirement regarding battle activity

“Often”? Majority of them do not have it. I’d rather use the term “sometimes” here, only.

@Real_K_Soze

Therefore you have depending on the match itself often the choice between staying in the match to get additional mission score or to help to secure a win - or to score fast and relatively high, land and j out and leave in order to fulfill the requirements.

This depends on several factors, including average “skill” of a player, their play style, even whether they want more RP, or to fulfill their task’s activity requirement, or both. To me personally, there is no such choice: my usual play style results in sufficient activity percentage achieved no problem all on its own in many, if not most, matches, even when it’s 85% activity requirement for a special task. YMMV thing.

@Real_K_Soze

If you want to help players:

I know about Academy, but this thread was made to discuss this matter. Which is exactly what it resulted in - a good discussion. Thank you for taking part, too.

@Real_K_Soze

Continuing with this thread is a dead end.

Far as i’m concerned, this discussion is complete, but i see no harm if you, me or anyone else discuss few related bits and pieces a bit more. Just like we did now.

Have a nice day. o7