I came to the conclusion that the game’s automated systems which handle “inactivity” of players - punish quite many good players for what the system mindlessly considers “inactivity”

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1

I came to the conclusion that the game’s automated systems which handle “inactivity” of players - punish quite many good players for what the system mindlessly considers “inactivity”.

Here’s how and why. The matter is somewhat complex, but crystal clear once you get relevant data. Which i will now provide.

In short: regularly, in air RB (and most certainly in quite some other modes), one team has just one player alive, while the other has several players alive. And that “last guy” avoids combat. By doing so, however, he benefits both himself AND all the players of the opposing team - both dead and alive. Yet, the game’s reporting system, the game’s automated routines to deal with “inactive” players, and majority of players in the game - all see such “combat avoidance” as something bad. In error. And this is largely due to how game’s reward system is designed.

Now, details.

1st, how the game’s “inactivity” systems work. There is a reporting system where any player can report any other player for “inactivity” in a match. There is also automatic system which tracks how many times any particular player was reported, and sends a message to the player if they were reported more than 10 times. Furthermore, there are systems which disable all rewards from a particular match, or multiple matches, for players who are “too inactive” (no idea how it decides when to start disable rewards). Finally, there are “potential bans” for, quote, “repeated or severe inactivity”.

Most of the above paragraph can be seen by simply doing ’ “War Thunder” what is inactivity? ’ search query in g00gle.

2nd, one key fact about game’s reward system: majority of RP earned for almost all players is from “time played” and “PVE” actions in a match.

Let me demonstrate it with an example. In one recent match i played, i did all types of activity, earned over over 4k match score, yet still far more than half of all RP earned - was from “time played” and various actions not related to player-vs-player combat. Somewhat condensed copy-paste of in-game battle report from this match - is in the “Addendum” at the end of this post, with all relevant details. Here’s the key numbers from it, though, to see the scope of this problem:

RP earned for 3 player kills, 2 player kill assists, and all on-player hits and damage - is merely 12.3% of all base RP earned in this match;

  • calculated as follows: 42+200+210+85+90+168+21+19+22+11+11+9+9+(5x10)+(10x11)+6463 = 1057 RP; 1057 / 86.17 = 12.26645%, where “86.17” is 1% of base RP listed in this match’s report;

but, RP earned by 2 NPC planes kills, 1 ground unit kill, 4 1000 lb bombs dropped on 2 bases, 2 take-offs, 2 landings, hits and damage on non-player targets, “acitivity time” and “time played” (i.e., all “non-PvP” actions taken) - is 87.7 % of RP earned.

  • calculated as follows: 38+8+7+30+4+(5x2)+38+38+75+75+153+306+153+153+27+6445 = 7560 RP; 7560 / 86.17 = 87.73355%. Verification: 87.73355% + 12.26646% =100.0000%, so above calculations are correct.

You may note there is a “skill bonus” which is awarded for player kills - in this game, for 3 kills, it’s 75%. However, you should then note that RP given by this bonus is ALSO only 12.3% from PvP - while 87.7% of it is from PvE actions and time played. Because this bonus multiplies base RP.

You may note that PvP kills increased activity %, which multiplies all RP earned - but then you should note, particularly from “hits” part of this match report, that i spent vast majority of this match time fighting other players; should i use even fraction of this time to do more PvE actions, this would also increase activity %, and give comparable, possibly better, base RP rewards for actions.

And you should also note that regardless how much PvP or PvE is done, far over half of base RP will come from “time played” - this is true for all matches, including this one.

And then you should also note that “vehicle research bonus” - in case of this match, same 75% as skill bonus, - multiplies “time played” only limited number of times per day per nation: 5 times.

This means, no matter whether you, i or anybody like it or not, the most efficient way to earn RP (and to large extent, also SL) - is PvE action: primarily destruction of enemy bases, but also NPC planes and ground targets, particularly pillboxes and medium / heavy tanks.

And this also means, whether we like it or not, it is rational to prolong battles as much as possible whenever having “vehicle research bonus” unlocked - regardless if it’s a winning or losing game.

And the above two conclusions - apply to BOTH “the last guy” in a match, but also, and especially so, to everyone in the opposing teams. The longer they stay in the game (by not killing that last guy) - the more “time played” they get, which is the main source of their RP, and the more time they have to safely do PvE action, to get both more base RP and higher activity, in safe and easy conditions - without any major risk of dying.

Last and least, if someone is playing matches not for RP / SL rewards, but to just “do combat” - liking the process, etc, - then “the last guy alive is running away” does not force them to chase. They can easily quit the match, instead of spending any much time chasing “that last guy”, to join another for a fresh big bunch of enemy players to fight.

And THAT is how “last guy avoiding combat” - equals HELPING both himself and everyone in the other team. In all cases. Even when people in the other team think different - the numbers will remain the same regardless of their opinion.

And yet, that last guy gets reported by many players failing to understand the above, and possibly supressed by the game’s “inactivity prevention” automated scripts, and possibly even banned from the game?

THIS. IS. RIDICULOUS.

Something has to be done about it.

Because the more players realise this, and the more good players do it (mainly PvE, and staying alive) - the more of them will 1st get “sanctioned” by the game, and the more of them will end up banned from the game.

And having good and intelligent people banned from the game - does not benefit anybody.

Addendum - combat report mentioned above:
“”
Victory in the [Operation] Falkland Islands mission!
Destruction of aircraft 5 9533 SL 498 RP
3:56 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 745 SL 42 RP
6:21 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Su-11 … 3724 SL 200 RP
14:42 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 1117 SL 38 RP
18:35 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 3724 SL 210 RP
24:34 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 223 SL 8 RP
Destruction of ground vehicles 1 203 SL 7 RP
1:59 … Howitzer (AI) … 203 SL 7 RP
Assistance in destroying the enemy 2 3352 SL 175 RP
5:53 … SK60B … 1676 SL 85 RP
6:53 … MiG-9 (l) … 1676 SL 90 RP
Severe damage to the enemy 2 3873 SL 198 RP
3:45 … F-84G-21-RE() … 2979 SL 168 RP
23:36 … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 894 SL 30 RP
Critical damage to the enemy 4 1228 SL 66 RP
3:45 … F-84G-21-RE() … 372 SL 21 RP
5:13 … SK60B … 372 SL 19 RP
23:34 … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 112 SL 4 RP
24:16 … MiG-15 … 372 SL 22 RP
Damage to the enemy 26 3834 SL 210 RP
1:59 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Howitzer (AI) … 10 SL 0 RP
1:59 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Howitzer (AI) … 10 SL 0 RP
3:44 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
3:49 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
5:13 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … SK60B … 186 SL 9 RP
5:18 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … SK60B … 186 SL 9 RP
6:04 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-9 (l) … 186 SL 10 RP
6:09 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-9 (l) … 186 SL 10 RP
6:20 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Su-11 … 186 SL 10 RP
6:21 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Su-11 … 186 SL 10 RP
6:26 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Su-11 … 186 SL 10 RP
7:36 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Meteor F Mk.8 Reaper … 186 SL 11 RP
7:41 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … Meteor F Mk.8 Reaper … 186 SL 11 RP
14:42 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 56 SL 2 RP
14:42 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 56 SL 2 RP
14:43 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 56 SL 2 RP
16:37 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
16:42 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
17:52 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
18:33 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
18:35 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
18:36 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … F-84G-21-RE() … 186 SL 11 RP
23:33 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 56 SL 2 RP
23:38 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15bis ISh (AI) … 56 SL 2 RP
24:16 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15 … 186 SL 11 RP
24:21 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) … MiG-15 … 186 SL 11 RP
Takeoffs 2 76 RP
12:42 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 38 RP
22:36 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 38 RP
Landings 2 150 RP
11:08 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 75 RP
21:12 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 75 RP
Destruction of bases 1 1386 SL 153 RP
2:57 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) AN-M65 1000 lb 636 kg 11577 Damage 138 mission points 1386 SL 153 RP
Damage to bases 3 4851 SL 612 RP
2:25 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) AN-M65 1000 lb 636 kg 11577 Damage 277 mission points 2425 SL 306 RP
15:18 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) AN-M65 1000 lb 318 kg 5788 Damage 138 mission points 1213 SL 153 RP
15:22 F-84G-21-RE(Italy) AN-M65 1000 lb 318 kg 5788 Damage 138 mission points 1213 SL 153 RP
Awards 7 3650 SL
2:00 First strike! 250 SL
3:56 Ground Force Rescuer 150 SL
18:36 Ground Force Rescuer 100 SL
18:36 Avenger 150 SL
25:08 Terror of the Sky 1000 SL
25:08 Bulletproof 1000 SL
25:08 On Hand 1000 SL
Activity Time 1300 SL 27 RP
F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 1300 SL 27 RP
Time Played 24:35 6445 RP
F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 97% 24:35 6445 RP
Reward for winning 13805 SL
Skill Bonus 6463 RP
F-84G-21-RE(Italy) II 6463 RP
Vehicle research bonus 6463 RP
F-84G-21-RE(Italy) 8617 RP F-84F(Italy) VI 8617×75%=6463 RP
Earned: 47015 SL, 15080 CRP
Activity: 97%
Automatic repair of all vehicles free.
Automatic purchasing of ammo and “Crew Replenishment”: -2340 SL
Researched unit:
F-84F(Italy): 23697 RP
Session: 5395a4600191817
Total: 44675 SL, 15080 CRP, 23697 RP
“”

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No, it’s you failing to understand that I don’t care about any extra SL or RP to be made. I just want the round over with and for the team to get the win.

9 Likes
3

Not reading 12 pages.

Happy for you though.
Or sad that it happened.

8 Likes
4

Some people just want the round to be over when dragging out a near 100% guaranteed win is also beneficial.

No one knows what the next match might bring. Win or lose. You might get less SL and RP from a lose, or the next match is an uptier where you get stomped. Be useless and die early. You’re theoretically better off staying in the guaranteed winning match.

But hey… some people lack patience, needs constant stimulation or just don’t care. I think a good amount of people fall in the first two though. Some play to have fun and not minmax the grind.

3 Likes
5

Yeah. War Thunder is only a grind simulator if you let it be. Especially if you have no interest playing top-tier most of the time. I think it’s something you learn over time. This game has been here since 2012 for air, and 2014 for ground. There’s no rush. You don’t need to minmax your grind. Games not gong anywhere.

4 Likes
6

And why you want the round over? What good do you get from ending it?

And the win - is either certain, in which case you can just quit and go next round yourself, anytime, or, if there is any doubt the team would get a win, then it’s still a fight, and then it’s fair game and sound tactic on the last guy’s part, which you should respect.

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You get to play the next round where actual fun stuff can happen again and you’re not spending like 10 minutes flying around looking for one guy.

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8

If you don’t want to fight it out as the last player on the losing team you got three options.

  1. Crash and let the match be over with.

  2. Let the enemy team shoot you down.

  3. Return to airfield, land and then J out.

You are not accumulating extra activity by spending X amount of time doing literally nothing but flying around, nor is anyone else. People can accumulate game activity by hitting the GTs or bases if not shooting down players and that’s all well and good because it counts more for activity compared to just dragging the match out by doing nothing, but flying around is doing literally nothing.

It’s better to just take the L for a lost match and move onto the next one.

9

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3 Likes
10

The short answer is that one enemy dragging out the match only benefits bombers, ground pounders and the single person that gets the kill; for the rest of the team your time is much better spent in a different match because even if the match lasts 40 minutes, if all your kils are from the first 10 minutes, you are not getting a bigger reward. Same thing for the last guy in the enemy team, your time is much better spent in a match you can win unless you are actually trying to win and not just running.

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You get to play the next round anytime you want, no matter what that one last guy does. I told already in 1st post: you wanna new round - you’re free to quit the one you’re playing and get the new one.

So, no, the last guy’s actions do not anyhow delay your new round. You do - by not pressing couple buttons needed to quit current round.

2 Likes
12

What’s stopping you from leaving the match yourself then?

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And who told you i don’t want to fight it out when i’m the last player? It actually depends. I sure want to, if there are any reasonable chance to win a fight. When there is not, i don’t want to - ain’t suicidal here. Recently, i won one when i was the last guy and enemy team had 7 folks alive, exactly by fighting it out.

But it depends on what kind of plane you’re in, and what kind of players remain in enemy team. Quite often, it is suicidal to fight. Example: you fly a jet which has no counter-measures, no radar, no RWR, no MAW, no all-aspect missiles - and you got a bunch of jets against you who got all of that and have shown they know how to use it, by scoring good frags in the match. Matchmaking allows such stuff. Trying to fight would be suicidal.

But that’s entirely different point. My 1st post is saying that IF the last guy does not want to fight - it’s a good thing for everyone who is playing to earn RP. Simple as that. You don’t like it? I don’t like it too. Our opinion does not change it, though.

As for your proposed options, they are not so good. “Crash to end the game”: doing this applies full SL repair cost. Why do it? “Let enemies shoot you down” - the same. “Land and jump out” - this one is OK only if you know you can safely land. Sadly, those days, it’s very often not the case: there are players who will destroy you when you’d try to land. Vultures, the old WT word for 'em - they prey on airfields, both with and without AA on them, to get easy kills.

About activity: after doing 3…4 total of destroyed enemy bases / enemy kills (including AI planes), activity gets over 80% even if you’d then spend more than half of a match doing nothing. There is many times more RP to gain via staying alive and increasing “time played” than what you can get by doing many more “actions” which score for activity - doesn’t get more than 100% you know.

And yes, the other team can and should keep hitting bases, ground units and NPC planes when that last guy is running away. They get triple benefit from such a prolonged game: 1st, direct RP rewards for bases and units destroyed, 2nd, several more percent of activity, and 3rd, more “time played” while also getting victory bonus over it all.

That is what i am talking about, man - that “last guy running away” and surviving for longer actually gives the other team ideal conditions to get more RP and SL from a match. They should thank him, if RP or SL is what they want. And like i said more than once already, anyone just wishing for a new match - can quit the current one and get new one any time. It’s just couple buttons to press. Ain’t too long or difficult, is it?

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TL;DR What you want is to control the behavior of other players which will never happen no matter how much you want to. I will remind you what your options are as the last player if you don’t want to fight it out.

  1. Crash and let the match be over with.

  2. Let the enemy shoot you down.

  3. Return to airfield, land and then J out.

Those are the only options you get as the last player on the losing team in a match. No more, no less. Deal with it.

15

If I interpret these calculations and conclusions correct, it only shows one problem to me:
The reward system doesn’t fit the current state of ARB at all.

The primary goal of ARB is to win a battle. And the reward system has to follow this goal. Actually it doesn’t.

All other problems of “bad” behaviour are symptoms of a public server design. You will never get rid of it. And the useless report system makes it even worse.

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So is there a TLDR? ARB Brawl leading to low playtime which is a cut to profit, or what?

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To control behaviour of other players, some meants of control are required. There are no such means - not for me, nor for any other player. Which means, it’s impossible for me to control other players. And i don’t have a habit to want any impossible thing.

And i never said a word about what any “other” players must do. I only spoke about what they can do. If they so wish, themselves.

As for the options you proposed - how about “4. Outrun and dodge other players”. How that is not an option in your list? It often takes skill to do it well, it can be fun doing it, and there are even in-game awards for doing exactly that, like “survivor” in air arcade.

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It doesn’t fit completely, but it does fit certain purposes. It’s different. That’s why my 1st post uses specific phraze i used to describe this problem - not “doesn’t fit ARB”, but rather “the game’s automated routines to deal with “inactive” players, and majority of players in the game - all see such “combat avoidance” as something bad. In error.”.

It is exactly the game’s “inactivity” reporting tool, reward suppression subsystem and “potential bans” which needs revision. Not the entire reward system. Because there are important reasons RP and SL are awarded the way they are awarded, and changing them any much - would be inadvisable.

It sure doesn’t, yes. But thing is, it shouldn’t, too.

To win a battle - is not the primary goal in ARB. Nor in any “random” battles mode. To win battles - is the primary goal only in squadron battles and in team tournaments, in WT. Because there, everyone in the team gets rewards if the team wins, and everyone gets nothing if the team loses. This is the same with IRL team sports like basketball, volleyball, football, hockey, etc.

In ARB and other “random battles” modes, rewards are individual. Your team may lose, but if you personally did very good, you still get very good rewards. Your team may win, but if you failed hard, you get almost nothing anyway. That’s why in ARB and other “random battles” - the primary goal, for everyone, is to do well personally. Whether the team wins or not - is secondary, not primary, concern.

And then, the big thing about ARB and all other “random battles” modes reward system - is that, by design, it must both provide significantly bigger rewards for better individual performance, BUT in the same time, it must also provide significantly big rewards for vast majority of players, including those with low skill, ability and/or motivation to perform well. The former is to satisfy “better half” of all the players - the latter, to satisfy “worse half” of all the players, simply put.

You see, that reward system must provide “meaniningfully large” reward to keep people grinding, and all kinds of people - noobs and masters, weak and strong alike; but also it must not allow any way to massively (many-fold) increase of reward via this or that specific tactic or method of playing, because if such exist, someone among dozens thousands players will find and share it, and before long, lots of players do it and “break the system”, so to say.

Those, very understandable, needs - shaped up that key fact my 1st post mentions: “majority of RP gained - is from time played”. It is the “equalizer” part as well as “ain’t nothing there to massively increase RP gains via some specific gameplay tactic”. And as such, this feature is certainly needed and desired, and will stay. It may get weakened a bit, perhaps, but never dramatically.

That’s why the only imaginable way to deal with that side-effect of “avoiding combat = inactivity = punishable” current state of game’s treatment of running-away / base camping players - is to do something specifically about how inactivity is treated and handled by the game. Can’t change (much) reward system, per above.

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There is. 3rd paragraph of 1st post.

If that’s too long, here’s WTLDR: game’s reward system makes it beneficial for everybody to avoid PvP combat when they are “last guy in the team”, and even more so, against enemy’s “last guy in the team”.

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I don’t have much to say on your opinions in general here, but i do want to point out some details.

Players shouldn’t be playing for SL/RP as a primary goal, they should be playing to have fun. I can almost with certainty say that a vast majority of players won’t find flying aimlessly around the map fun, nor chasing the player that does.

The systems in place AND the rules all discourage such behaviour:

image
image1127×63 26.3 KB

( Code of Conduct )

In the end it isn’t about maximising the grind, it’s about having fun playing the game. You are fully within your right to try to maximize your own RP gain as long as it doesn’t break the rules of fair play and effect other players experience with the game negatively.

Sidenote:
Avoiding combat may increase your reward, but i’m not entirely sure it does though as RP gain from time played is a function of a multiplier with activity percentage gained from your score.
I’m not sure about this next source as i have no way of confirming the data but my gut feeling tells me it leans towards being correct. Section 4.3 of this player made RP calculation explanation shows that if you play longer without gaining more score you loose activity percentage and i wonder if that loss is offset by the RP gain from time played over the same period for some of the score ranges. ( WT score, SL and RP reward calculation method revised edition - Google Documenten )

3 Likes