is old newsreel acceptable source?
(https://filmhiradokonline.hu/watch.php?id=5776)
2 german soldiers are visible later on, outside the tiger…closer to a German aircraft…so looking at their field hats they might be airmen and not tank crew. especially since there is only two of them… so this newsreel might be good for proving the HU usage of the tiger 1. Opinions ?
This newsreel shows the Hungarian Stug III’s all with Saukopf mantlet, manned by HU crew’s. 1:28
https://filmhiradokonline.hu/watch.php?id=5877
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How come MLI-84? That’s a Romanian vehicle
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Romanian vehicles are placed in the Italian TT as well, if you look at whole post I mention Romanian stuff multiple times.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/714838496728186913/1148203342590378044/image_1.jpg
Hi guys! Some info I found on Hungarian tigers if someone is interested.
http://real-j.mtak.hu/11719/1/Haditechnika_1997.pdf at page 134
The Hungarian tiger could get (if it ends up ingame) the “Hanna” text on the cupola.
Some had spare tracks on them.
At page 136, there are the sources mentioned.
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Would this be good replacement for the BTR-80A?
Its not that much different but it would be nice. Or maybe have it foldered with the MLI-84 in the future.
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They literally write here that there is no evidence that they were transferred. Since there were no identification marks or Hungarian markings.
A harckocsik átadása Nadwornán történt, ahová a 3. harckocsiezredet gépjárműveinek rendbehozatalára összevonták. Ekkor került a magyar alakulatokhoz 12 db Pz.IV.Hnémet közepes harckocsi, /0 57z/^.///.iSrohamlöveg, valamint 10 PzVI.E Tigris /. nehézharckocsi. A kapott járművek már használtak, részben nagyjavításon átesettek voltak, amelyekhez csak a legszükségesebb - a harckocsik felszereléséhez tartozó - szerszámokat adták. A műhelyfelszerelés, a pótalkatrészek teljesen hiányoztak. A német hadseregcsoport-parancsnokság kilátásba helyezte még két Tigris harckocsi és 15 tonna javítóanyag átadását. Az ígért felszerelés azonban 1944. július 23-ig, az újabb mozgó hadműveletek megindulásáig nem érkezett meg a páncéloshadosztályhoz. (5)
Arról, hogy a német harckocsik végleg a honvédség állományába kerültek-e, vagy csak a hadműveletek idejére adták át őket, nem maradtak fenn írásos adatok. A rendelkezésünkre álló fényképek tanúsága szerint a harckocsikra nem kerültek fel sem a M.Kir. Honvédség, sem a 3. harckocsiezred jelzései. A harcjárművek eredeti német felségjeleikkel, toronyszámaikkal és esetleges egyéni jelzéseikkel működtek magyar szolgálatban is.
Its really sad that a lot of Hungarian documents were lost/destroyed.
Not just Tigers but the Tas, Lidérc rocket and etc …
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There is nothing to be upset about, Hungary still has a lot of things, especially since Italy will still have Romania someday)
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it also says that they were in service with the Hungarian army while retaining German markings. So it proves that HU crews were trained and used tigers. That along with all the historical photographs of HU tank crewmen in Tigers is “direct evidence that these tanks were in the Hungarian service”
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The subject was about them being german units in Hungary. And that turns out to be a false statement.
Now, we all know that Tigers were used in Hungarian 2nd Panzer Division, 3rd Panzer Regiment, I. Battalion, 2nd and 3rd Company. So they were used under Hungarian command. It cannot be said that these were crewed by Germans and were under Hungarian command also, as we know some of the commanders of these Tiger tanks, like Tarczay Ervin and Kósa Tibor, already pictured here in their Tigers.
So these Tiger Es were under Hungarian command and crewed by Hungarians. What else we need?
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The only heavy tank directly operated by the Hungarian Army is the IS-2 from 1950 to 1956, so this is the only heavy tank we will get.
It was not in service with Hungary, it is German equipment, in service with Germany. Hungary just needs to be removed as soon as possible and cancel its addition. 1940-1945 a puppet and ally of Germany (NOT ITALY), 45-91 A Soviet puppet (NOT ITALY), 1992-2023 and further an ally of Germany in armament (not Italy). Hungary-Germany or nobody.
How about Hungary and Poland and/or Czechoslovakia as V4…?
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No, it was “puppet” only from late 1944 to 1945. And hungarian connections with italy were really strong. They got mass of CV-33 tamketes, and basiclly they whole aircraft production was licensed or heay modified italian constructions. So there’s strong connection to italy.
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It would be much better if my Visegrad Group suggestion would come next update but thats we got.
The evidence is that it was listed as a Hungarian Army equipment, so Hungarian, not German equipment it was. And it does not matter what Hungary was. (Also have to mention that Hungary got these Tigers in May, 1944, while Horthy was remowed in October 14-15., 1944. to prevent him joining the fights on the soviet side… So Tigers were in service in a not-a-puppet-state axis Hungary for months.
The 5 Panther Ds Hungary got in August 1944 for training purposes and possibly As and/or early Gs in September, 1944 arrived also when Hungary was about to leave Germany in the s…t :D
So thats what you have to explain.)
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It also says that there is no evidence for the transfer of these tanks to Hungary on an ongoing basis.
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They were transferred for use in the war, that’s right. But, on an ongoing basis, no one handed them over, respectively, this technique was not listed, including the identification marks of the Hungarian armed forces
This can be compared with this one, but this does not mean that it was in service:
Spoiler
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It was common in Hungary to use german markings on german vehicles, so thats not a big deal :D
Its pretty rare to see them (hun markings) on late german stuff, but is not nonexistent. I mean on most Hungarian Panzer IV G, J, Stug III G, Hetzer pictures these vehicles are lacking hungarian markings, but there is some. It does not matter what marks it has…
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Then how to prove that this is the Hungarian version, and not the German one?)
To be honest, let the company rack its brains, in the old documents, not us xD
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In case of Tigers and Panthers both papers say that these were delivered, given to Hungarian armed forces.
Papers also says that some examples of these tanks were available (operational) for the units it operated in.
Papers saying what the Hungarian crew done with them, how battles went.
In case of Tigers there are also pictures (photographic evidence!!!, the thing they asked for) of Hungarian tank aces sitting in their Tigers.
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