He just referred to BF-109 in a different way
I still have two and I have a number of Hugarian tanks. Sounds like the issue is Premiums not flooding the Italian line up with Hungarian planes.
Maybe the Italians are fine with not having Italian planes but German/Hungarian instead but for the UK we ae not happy with having SA when there are UK units missing and big gaps that could be filled. with UK vehicles.
I have Hungarian planes and tanks so my view is what it is. If you don’t like if fine but I still voted no and I said why.
those literaly arent even hungarian, italy received them as well
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Whatever dude, I’m just answering your questions.
There’s a Hungarian BF-109 as a battle pass reward, simple as.
Hungarian aircraft and Italian aircraft are not mutually exclusive… stop fighting ghosts.
And again: I stated my agreement on ZA. It is still a very different case from Italy and Hungary, I already stated why.
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Italy wanted a heavy tank .Gaijin gave them A German one in a Hungarian guise…as a premium lol . Oh well whose fault is that ? Careful what you wish for .
Again, unrelated to anything discussed here.
Quit fighting ghosts.
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I believe that a subtree should help fixing the flaw of the main tree, and not be redundant with useless copy and paste or planes that can easily be placed in the main tree.
tier 1 and 2 do not offer much, they are modifications of Italian aircraft and some minor local aircraft. in any case something must be add.
I see something interesting in the CAS like the Me210 The TU-2, but the IL-10 is missing as the Yak9, both used before the revolution of 1956.
As for the bf 109, Italy has also used almost all the available versions so I don’t see why we should persist in putting it in the Hungarian subtree, can be add in the italian tree. while interesting is the FW190 that has never been used by italy. In general all the german plane used by both countries can be added to the main tree, but some very special options but nothing come to me mind. Some Hungarian markings can be add as addition camouflage.
The various cold war migs are interesting, but they bring the issue of the use of USSR equipment in the italian tree from a part of the italian players. (I do not care). Saab Gripen is almost welcome as the mig 29.
The most interesting plane to me are the su-22, the Tu-2, IL-10 (not in the proposed tree) and the beagle.
I would focus on the planes that were used exclusively by Hungary, therefore excluding duplicates, and on those that can give an advantage to the tree by filling important gaps. strangely I don’t see Caproni planes, in some cases only adopted by Hungary in the tree but just as premium.
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I would prefere to have the romanian tech tree within the italian one. Romania has far more interesing options as hungary. As low tier PZL 11/24 than IAR 80/81. Post WWII IAR 93 and Mig 21 lancer and Mig 29 sniper.
The italian would not gain any attractiveness for players who already played the another nations by adding also copy and paste planes. You can get the grippen already on two nations, the mig 29 also.
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so two types of aircraft that are actually Romanian…cause the PZL is Polish and Hungary has actual Hungarian counterparts to that. While the MiG sniper is an Israeli upgrade.
This is very far from "far more interesting options "
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We do not have the PZLs ingame. They are more favourable than hungerian cr32, 42 or re2000 who are literally already in the Italian tree. The Mig 29 sniper is at least a little bit more unique than a hungerian mig29 which would be a copy of the german Mig29
Yeah its bad, plus gaijin only copies vehicle when there is a gap in the BR: despite the sagittario 2 being rather extreme to play(and overtiered) or the aerfer ariete, there is still something at 9.3. Edit: CL-13B Mk.6 for Germany on that topic as well.
iam talking about the WM-15 and WM-21 as the counterparts of the mentioned Tier 1 polish aircraft.
At some point, RO stuff will appear in the game too, so it’s useless to have a counting contest.
You seem to be severely confused.
You don’t even know what a subtree is. It is one line (plus a few extras) of vehicles from a smaller country that sits in the main tech tree of a bigger country. The UK has the SA subtree, Sweden has the (purely copy-paste) Finnish subtree, and Italy has a Hungarian ground subtree already. Why on Earth would you have a problem with a Hungarian air subtree being added when it already has the Hungarian ground (and heli) subtree?
Yes, we know that you have 2 “Hungarian” (actually Hungarian-operated German) premium aircraft. Most people have none. Even I only have one. Besides, none of the 4 “Hungarian” (German) premium aircraft that are in the game are actually Hungarian, and none of them are researchable and freely obtainable. So what is your problem with actually Hungarian researchable aircraft being added?
At no point was I advocating for every single nation to get its own full tech tree. Most can’t even get a subtree. I am advocating for Hungary (a nation that can easily have a complete subtree) to have only a subtree.
Then you complain that we don’t need to add minor nations and instead should fill in the gaps in medium nations… did it never occur to you that we can kill two birds with one stone, by adding a minor nation subtree into a medium nation tech tree, thereby representing the minor nation as well as filling in the gaps in the medium tech tree. That is literally what Gaijin did with SA and Finland, and what they are doing with Hungary. Besides, adding a Hungarian subtree and filling gaps in tech trees are not mutually exclusive. Gaijin can do both.
I wouldn’t call 3-4 German planes with Hungarian markings hidden as rare premiums “enough Hungarian aircraft in the game already”. Still not a single actually Hungarian plane, still no researchable Hungarian aircraft.
What are you on about with Italy’s heavy tank situation? This is off-topic, but either way, here are the candidates for a heavy tank in the Italian tree:
-Italian P.26/40: in-game, medium tank, not a heavy.
-Italian P.43 heavy tank: project only, not even a prototype, can’t be added.
-No other Italian heavy tank option exists.
-Hungarian 44M Tas: could be added, hopefully it will, unique, we are waiting for this.
-Hungarian-operated German Tiger: was hoping this would be researchable, but Gaijin made it premium (because profit). Not our fault so stfu with “cArEfUL whAt yOU wIsH f0R”.
-Hungarian-operated Soviet IS-2: a possible candidate, but not great because it is Soviet copy-paste.
Anyway, what you seem to be saying is “I have 2 planes with Hungarian markings, so don’t add any more, even if they are more indigenous, interesting, useful to the Italian tech tree, I don’t care, don’t add them, because I think the 2 that I have is more than enough, we should never ever see Hungarian-designed planes in WT because I said so, and I don’t care that most players will never be able to get a Hungarian plane, because I’m happy and I don’t care about anyone else’s needs other than my own”.
Seems a bit self-centred…
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Ok, I see your point and I do sort of share your view as well. I also think that indigenous aircraft should have priority over copy-pastes. As I already said, my subtree suggestion does not mean that I think Italy shouldn’t get Italian aircraft. Italy getting more Italian aircraft, and Hungary getting their air subtree are not mutually exclusive, they can both be done by Gaijin. I believe they should add my Hungarian air subtree, but also add the missing Italian aircraft into the 4 Italian lines where they would nicely fit. I don’t suppose you have a problem with a Hungarian aviation line as Italy’s 5th line, so I think we can both agree on that, the only thing we may disagree on is how to handle the few Hungarian strike aircraft and bombers that I added into the Italian lines.
Let me explain that I added these strikers and bombers to show that Hungary offers these as gap-filling options. If there are Italian equivalents that can fit those same exact gaps, then we can discuss which aircraft should have that place. I’m not saying the Hungarian aircraft should always get the place, there will probably be some cases where an Italian aircraft would deserve that place much more, and that’s fine. In such a case, the Hungarian aircraft could be foldered, added as a premium/battle pass/event reward, or not added at all.
So I assume by this you are saying that you want these to replace the rank IV BR 5.7 Hungarian Tu-2S.
- The P.133 seems like a fair and logical aircraft to take its place. The problem with it is that it wasn’t completed or flown, so I’m not sure what Gaijin will decide to do with it. Even if they do add it, will it be added at rank IV BR 5.7? If it will be a higher or lower BR, then we can still keep the Tu-2S, as it will still be a gap-filler right?
- The Br.1150 seems to be a maritime patrol aircraft. How exactly would this be a better addition than an actual bomber? Would it even be at the same rank and BR?
- The S-2F Tracker is a small anti-submarine warfare naval aircraft. How on Earth is this supposed to be a better fit for the heavy, land-based bomber line than a Tu-2S? Again, would it even be at the same BR? Would Gaijin even add this sort of aircraft into the bomber line? I don’t think so.
- The B-24D makes sense, but it is also a copy-paste. Also, Italy only accidentally captured 1 such aircraft when the Americans landed it at the wrong airfield! This would make more sense as a premium/battle pass/event aircraft than as a researchable one in the main line. The Tu-2S is a better fit for the researchable bomber line than a single captured copy-paste American bomber.
Glad we can agree on this. At least it can extend the bomber line into rank V BR 8.0.
- The MB-326 is a '50s/'60s light trainer. Not only is it a bit of a weird addition (like the battle pass Strikemaster), it would also be rank V-VI, not a rank IV (too modern) or rank VII (too weak), so this couldn’t replace my rank IV or my rank VII Hungarian strike aircraft.
- The MB-339 seems like a better addition, but it is still a slow light trainer with poor flight performance; it can’t even reach 900 km/h, so I doubt it would be able to replace my supersonic 10.7 Su-22. Maybe it could go to rank VI between the F-84F and my Su-22?
- The S-211 seems like an even worse version of the MB-339. Still a slow, subsonic light trainer aircraft. It seems to have a much smaller payload as well. This absolutely could not replace my Su-22. It could maybe be a rank V/VI, but I don’t think adding light trainers as combat strike aircraft is a good idea.
Again, if there are genuinely better Italian equivalents that could replace the strikers and bombers, then sure, the Hungarian strikers and bombers could be foldered, made into premiums/battle pass/event aircraft, or removed entirely, but I don’t think any of the aircraft you mentioned would be perfect replacements of them. But so long as we agree on the main Hungarian air subtree line being added, and that’s the main thing, so we are mostly in agreement (not sure why you voted no for the suggestion if you are not here to go against it).
Sure, but it can’t hurt to have more options, right? And the MiG-29 and JAS39C would be in the Hungarian line anyway, so not interfering with any Italian top tier jets. I think it would help make Italy top tier even better, as they would have access to the best top tier jets from several nations (USA, Western Europe, UK, USSR, and Sweden). Also, it makes the Italy grind much more appealing, as until now, you’d have to grind through 3 boring af F-104s until you get to top tier. If you hate F-104s, then you can suffer or give up on Italy. At least with Hungarian MiGs being an option, people can grind using a different type of aircraft that they enjoy more and can actually bear, so they can still reach top tier Italian jets.
Then later you say that none of the Hungarian aircraft are needed (except the IL-28) and that Italy already has perfect counterparts for every single aircraft that the Hungarian subtree could possibly bring. That’s just ridiculous. There’s no way Italy has perfect replacements for the 30 researchable aircraft in my suggestion. Especially considering you tried to provide 7 replacements for 4 of my strikers/bombers, and none are perfect replacements for any of them.
Besides, even if there are perfect Italian replacements for Hungarian aircraft, why do you insist that Hungarian vehicles mustn’t be added? By your logic, there is a perfect American replacement for every Italian aircraft, so Gaijin should never have added Italian aircraft into the game? Just because one country’s aircraft can “replace” another’s, doesn’t mean that the other country’s aircraft can’t be represented in this game. There is enough space in WT for both Italian and Hungarian aircraft to be represented.
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You mean you would actually rather have a Romanian air subtree for Italy than a Hungarian one!? Considering Italy has a Hungarian ground and helicopter subtree, you still think that Hungary shouldn’t get an air subtree (even though they could) and Romania should be Italy’s air subtree instead? What a mess! Also, how does it make sense for Romania to be a subtree of Italy, when they were only allies in the early part of WW2 and then Romania switched sides so they were enemies of Italy! Then they were passively enemies of Italy during the cold war too. They were enemies of Italy longer than they were allied to Italy! The Romanians also have like nothing to do with Italy, and barely used Italian technology and weapons; Hungary had a closer relationship with Italy and they traded and used each other’s weapons much more and to a greater extent - especially in the aviation industry! In fact, from the interwar years up until mid WW2, the vast majority (at some point nearly all) of the Hungarian Airforce was equipped with Italian or Hungarian-modified Italian aircraft! And you think Romania somehow makes more sense to add to Italy as a subtree, despite Hungarian tanks and helicopters already having been given to Italy? That is a pretty ridiculous idea. I think a Romanian subtree would make more sense going to their historical ally/master throughout the period; France. Better that than stealing Hungary’s air subtree space in a tech tree where they belong even less.
…in your opinion. In my opinion, no it doesn’t.
Oh wow! How interesting! A stolen Polish series of aircraft making up your starter ranks, then a plane we already have in-game (so interesting right? That’s why nobody ever uses that “super interesting” plane in-game), then a Yugoslav/Romanian joint project jet, which is the only interesting thing and can easily be added as a standalone and doesn’t warrant a whole subtree, then another two Soviet MiG variants which are actually Israeli upgrades (again, so interesting), funny how then you proceed to criticise my suggestion for using copy-pastes, when you literally just did so yourself!
And then you mention that you can already get the MiG-29 in two nations already, when you just used a MiG-29 as your justification for why a Romanian subtree should replace my Hungarian one…
And if we do get them, they should go with Poland, not freaking Romania in a Italian tech tree!
Are you actually kidding me right now? In what world are Polish aircraft being operated by Romanians in the Italian tech tree (which neither Poland nor Romania have any significant connection to) more favourable additions than Hungarian-modified and operated Italian aircraft in the Italian tech tree (which Hungary has a greater connection to)??? (Also, I’m suggesting the MAVAG Heja, not the “re2000”)
And finally, a Hungarian Gripen is more interesting than MiGs at top tier.
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But the Visegrad group doesn’t have Romania in it…
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I am not sure if Slovaks are happy or some Hungarian players are happy with Slovakian vehicles.
Source: certain Slovakian hoi4 player who is definitely(/s) dislikes Hungary to the last breath
Hungarians and Slovaks get along mostly fine.
And who’s that HOI4 player?
Anyway, not like Slovakia would get many vehicles in a Visegrad group TT. It would mostly just be Poland, Hungary and Czechia.
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This isn’t the only time I’ve seen you rant on about Romania, but I concur.
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