This sentiment starting to piss me off honestly. People are pretending like some pure Italian aviation tree got desecrated meanwhile the AMX is the ONLY Italian jet, pure Italian jet and not a C&P past rank 4. Everything is either license-built c@p or straight c&p. Its just has an Italian flag on it so purists don’t loose their shit
Edit: As Victory pointed it out there are a few more Italian jets 5 G.91, Ariete, Sagittario 2 and AMX. Still minority in the whole jet era.
What about the G.91s and the Sagittario 2/Ariete? But true, the Italian tree already had lots of copy and pastes, as do all trees really.
True. that makes it 8 with all the G.91 variants
The one in red are straight C&P the others in green are italians.
F-104S was made for and in Italy with the help of the italian industry.
The ASA was made by Aeritalia and other italian companies.
The Tornado was made through the Panavia consortium, this is formed by UK, Germany and Italy.
I would say the F-104s and Tornados should be yellow/orange as in “partially Italian”.
ADV is a bit questionable imo, since Italy only leased them from UK and didn’t participate in development of this variant, did it?
PS Italy is still missing a whole Aermacchi family sadly(
Yeah, ADV was entirely a British venture. Germany considered it, but decided the F-4F ICE was better.
AMX…For EMBRAER, the program has 30 percent…Brazil has been in the program since 1981…Memorandum of Establishment between the Governments of Italy and Brazil, 1982…The engines are English…The radar is Israeli
.
Unless the Italians modified them, those are as Italian as the HU built BF109’s are Hungarian
The F-104S were modified and made in Italy, even the first flight happened at Caselle.
The Tornado is italian as much as it is british and german, it’s not a design of a single nation that it is later exported, it was designed through the multinational Panavia consortium, quite different from just building some BF109s.
I admit that the ADV is debatable but at the end of the day it’s a lengthened IDS with around 80% of commonality, but you do you.
So the ADV is less Italian than the Me 210 Ca1 is Hungarian
Again while at least there are a number of jets that can be called Italian to a varying degree, the upheaval from the Italian purists is a joke as the Italian tech tree in the jet era is mostly C&P.
The problem here is that italian players want the more unique Macchi family instead they saw a vagon of pure soviet C&P jets dumped in the TT, as I said before, it would’ve been better to have Hungarian aircrafts mostly in the WW2 era and Romanian mixed in when it comes down to modern aircrafts, at least that wouldn’t have been a pure C&P experience and a reason to attract new players.
This directly correlates to WT’s monetization policy. We can wish in one hand and crap in the other, see which gets filled first.
In name of God, no. May Gaijin wake up and decide to introduce the Caproni/CANT planes of which there are plenty and set Hungary up as an autonomous tt.
Good job!
Also please expand this list with the following one planes:
Do you know of any Hungarian aircraft that I left out and should add?:
WW2:
-BF-109 D-1(fighter)
-BF-109 E-3(fighter)
-BF-109 E-4(fighter)
-Ju-88 A-4(bomber)
//JU-86K(Bomber)
(Royal Hungarian Air Force - received 33/34 Ju 87 D-3/D-5s and 11/12 B-1 and B-2s.)
-Ju-87 B-1(Dive-Bomber)
-Ju-87 B-2(Dive-Bomber)
-Ju-87 D-3(Dive-Bomber)
-Ju-87 D-5(Dive-Bomber)
-Horváth Sándor FW-190 F8 -sa (prémium) → special attribute: only stealt Ammo belt available. Role: (Dive-Bomber).
-BF-109 G-2(fighter)
-Me 210 Ca-1/R6
-MWG *1 BF-109 G-4 ‘Gusztáv *2’(fighter)
-MWG *1 BF-109 G-6’Gusztáv *2’(fighter)
-MWG *1 BF-109 G-14’Gusztáv *2’(fighter)
Hungarian peoples army:
-IL-10
SRC:
http://www.vasiszemle.hu/2016/01/stenge.htm
http://www.niehorster.org/015_hungary/book/Royal_Hungarian_Army_1920-1945.pdf
NOTE:
*1: (Magyar Wagon és Gépgyár, the Hungarian Wagon and Machine Factory
*2: Gusztáv(HU)- Gustav(Eng) Nickname of Bf-109 G variants
Other people have already pointed out that many of the so called ”copy/paste" aircraft were at least partially produced in Italy, and all of them were used by Italy and flew under the Italian flag.
And it is true that I do oppose most composite trees on esthetic grounds and I believe that historically accurate national tech trees have a certain “personality” and flavor that is lost when mixing multiple countries together.
However, I most probably would not be voicing such a criticism if it was made on purely esthetic grounds. ( de gustibus non disputandum est)
As you probably noticed, most people who agreed with me were also fans of WW2 era aircraft. I also play War Thunder primarily for ww2 era prop planes. And for people like me this update is not a god sign.
I support independent tech trees for new countries because said countries have large numbers of ww2 (or earlier) indigenous designs, and when said countries are discussed there is always the same opposition with the same argument repeated over and over “There should not be an independent Romanian/Czechoslovak/Polish/Hungarian/etc air tree because it would contain to many copy/pasted soviet planes. Instead we should have composite tech trees”. When people judge the viability of a new country they increasingly focus on the strength of its modern lineup. So what bothers me about the new update is that it sends a very clear message about which way the wind is blowing: new original ww2-era planes bring no value to the game, but padding an existing tech tree with copy/pasted planes (the same ones some people were so deathly afraid of when discussing new countries) is suddenly justified and does add value to the game if it makes said trees more playable at higher tiers. This is why we have a Hungarian sub tree with no Hungarian-made planes, and an “Axis” air tree with no new axis planes. Because the only thing that matters now is improving the experience for players who like the jet era.
Probably the saddest thing about the awful implementation of this subtree by Gaijin is that anyone who wanted to get the Hungarian jets already got to them by now. This means that, even when Gaijin adds the WM-23, the Heja or the Me 210 three updates later, they will be completely ignored by anyone other than fanatical Hungarian prop enjoyers (like me). And we all know what happens to planes with a tiny playerbase that are unlucky enough to only be played by hardcore fans.
Here’s a fun fact I just realized: if you exclude the Hungarian Gripen, Italy could have gotten the exact same 7 Soviet jets through a Polish or a Bulgarian subtree, as their Air Forces operated the identical variants.
That’s true, I hadn’t actually thought about it like that… I would just be happy to play Hungarian props like the WM-23 whenever they come, but thanks to them adding the high tier jets first, nobody will have to grind through these lower tier Hungarian props, so even when they are added, they won’t even get the attention they deserve because people will have just bypassed them. So even less people will play them, learn to play and like them, and find out about Hungarian props and the obscure historical nature that these less well known aircraft have. That really sucks.
As the Hungarian aircraft sub tree got implemented as part of update 2.35 Alpha Strike,
Moved to Implemented Suggestions. o7