Let’s look at what each vehicle has going for it individually, I think that would help to paint a bigger picture of which is better generally speaking.
HSTV-L pros:
Higher Mobility
Lower Profile
Larger Autoloader Reserve
Better penetration on APFS-DS
2s38 pros:
Higher rate of Fire
Superior Optics
3rd gen Thermals
Better Post-penitration spall
Better Shell selection
Laser-Warning Reciever
Better crew Placement
Ummanned Turret
Preferable BR placement
Premium Economy modifiers
Track Radar for Aircraft
Looking at these advantages, the HSTV-L does some things better than the 2s38, but overall, it’s not even close, the 2s38 just has so much more going for it, including BR placement and even economy.
for gaijin i would just say add something like the rdflt to just surpass the hstv-l but that doesn’t really solve the problem just a band aid fix but that would give it similar capabilities at a much higher br
yes they use a formula to calculate it, however being that both the velocity and mass of the shell in game is incorrect for delta 3 (an easier to remember name for the round in game) this formula is giving incorrect outputs, the velocity is taken from a document from marine corps testing of an unspecified ap shell, and the mass is an estimate which doesnt fit the known information about the shell, furthermore in all reports specifically on delta 3 state that its performance was roughly equivalent to m774
I have been requesting the information from the department of defense for months now and waiting on a proper response as far as i can tell the round the HSTV should do around 330mm of pen at 0 degree but gaijin made a random number up at around 270 with little to none spalling where the 2S38 has around 170mm pen at 0 degree yet has tons of spalling and penetration capabilities compared to the HSTV-l the math is very simple on the HSTV how to calcualte the penetration using the rod legnth and other factors no matter what the vehicle also uses a proxy round in real life gaijin refuses to give it yet the 2s38 has 4 types of round which is insane in itself and even worst thar proxy round is insane. Its just pure bias and greed on there part and im starting to believe they are trying to brainwash people in believing the abrams is paper in real life and thier is polotics deep at play
Gaijin didn’t make any numbers up.
270 is the number you get from plugging in known information into the formula.
No rounds spall, that’s not what spalling is. Spalling is primarily fragments of armor, not fragments of round.
The proxy round is no different to China’s ZSU-57-2 proxy round.
There’s no bias, no greed.
The fact you argue that Abrams is paper is pathetic.
War Thunder shows Abrams is armored & disproves your anti-Abrams nonsense.
Bro what on gods green earth are you smoking? Please send it my way, the abrams is literally paper combared to the leo and the t80 line. Yet its probably the most verstaile and best tank in the world by far and the only argument one could make it the leo is more advanced in some areas but TIA this is America buddy we have the best The Abrams has Depleted Uranium mesh under its plate its better armored than almost every tank in the world. In War thunder besides the small sides of the turret face this thing is rolling paper mache. You can shoot it practically where and its done. Any decent player dosent think twice when facing an Abrams especially a player in a BVM or LEO 2. In war thunder the kills may be up for it only because its a highly played tank especially now because of the f16c and everyone wants to ground pound. I love the Abrams because im an American but if your gonna put my countrys tank in this game and call it realstic then do it justice and model it correctly. Gaijin believe the west is incapable of making reactive armor that dosent exceed 20mm yet the BVM has 200mm!!! Kinetic reactive armor so argument is dumb asf you make 0 sense tell this argument to Any american main like myself about how good the Abrams is
The penetration you are right is not made up, it’s calculated with the (modified) LO formula. But lmao, the dart stats are just straight up made up, it can not be correct.
Stats are:
2.2 kg (around the correct value of 2.27 kg)
26mm caliber of the submunition (highly questionable, that’s wider than 120mm M829A2)
~240mm long dart (derived using WA density, afaik the dart is not DU, but not sure)
1463 m/s (actual velocity should be 1646 m/s for what we have in game)
Using these stats gives ~ 262mm perforation limit on the dart. Which is in the ballpark of the values in game, we don’t know the exact modifications Gaijin made to the LO formula or what exact other variables, but that could be the difference here.
Anyways, the diameter and length of the dart are in no way correct. We have a lot more data on ARES’ 45mm COMVAT APSFDS round, being a telescoped round (like XM885) it uses nearly the entire case length as dart length, that’s kinda the point of telescoped muntions. 45mm COMVAT is already of similar dart length to the in game XM885, which is just weird and likely not correct. Sources indicate, and pictures to boot, that the XM885 case is 5.2x19 inches, around 132x483mm, dart length is most likely in excess of 400mm. Plugging in a more reasonable estimate of 20x400mm, with corrected velocity, I get a perforation limit of around 385mm, which would match the similar to M774 performance claim better.
Point being, the dart stats currently in game are completely made up however, I would love for Gaijin to provide sources to the 26mm subcaliber we have now. This all results in wildly inaccurate penetration stats as consequence. Similarly, the Otomatic also uses a subcaliber of 26mm right now, but it penetrates 311mm (like nearly 40mm more than hstv-l) with less mass (very similar tho) by just going 1580 m/s (which is a lot more than what using the standard LO formula predicts), so perhaps the velocity fix to 1646 m/s would already fix the penetration for most part.
Leopard 2 has similar hull armor, and T-80B tanks have worse turrets than M1A1.
Only T-80U gets a good turret, which is in Sweden as well.
I should know, I both own & analyzed the tanks I’m talking about.
American ERA has 400mm of protection currently. BVM is closer to 650. As for anti-kinetic protection; ERA requires infantry-killing materials in order to defeat kinetic rounds, and Russian doctrine doesn’t have infantry around MBTs typically so that allows them to use better ERA.
It’s also why you’ll only ever see Kontakt 1 on vehicles that are around infantry, if any ERA at all.
And btw im well aware what spalling is as clearly stated in my original post spalling is a number input they have for the round its not a random thing that happens
Upper front shot on abrams with 3bm42= X value of fragmentation upon penetration and so on and so on . So yes they have the spalling on xm885 completely non existant and i would love to see the value on it. And yes they made up that 270mm of pen btw becUse the correct value should be 350mm to 370
Heres why
Case =406mm
Rod length =406mm
So should be 350 to 370
Not 270 dude they have this complely wrong this round was compared to m774 meaning 350mm of pen not 270 and with a smaller caliber on the gun it means the velocity of the round might not be as fast so when penetration occurs less spalling. But this thing shoudnt have that issue with that much penentration considering it should have 350mm of pen and dont even get me started why this thing does not have its proxy round
Night vision in HSTV L is a joke your eyes can get bad because of it and russian propaganda game is not gonna change this. BMP 2 has better optic at 10.0 than this 11.3 hstvl its A JOKE GAIJIN
HSTV-L was created in the late 1970s. Thermals barely existed during that time.
BMP-2M was built in 2016.
Just cause you push Russian propaganda doesn’t mean everyone does.
Yes, the design was finalized in 2020 - 2021.
All the documents are available in regards to this.
The funniest thing is the entire ammo set should be usable without stoppages, but it has a first stage cause it’s been assumed it’s like the Strf 9040s.
People claim Russian bias but Gaijin makes mistakes that harm Russian vehicles just as much as every other vehicle with mistakes on it.
2S38 is inferior to HSTV-L.
2S38 has worse pen, worse armor, worse speed, larger size.
HSTV-L is the fastest light tank in War Thunder 2nd to none with a power-to-weight of 32.36 and a top speed of 83kph.