That the Puma needs to go down in BR
Glad you agree with me that IRST is necessary for anti-air vehicles.
Your post is however off-topic as this is about 2S38 which is inferior as a SPAA than it is as anti-tank.
Delete from game
(2s38 i have too but i dont care)
It would because the % difference in pen is similar. A rank 2 plane that goes 50kph faster will be a larger relative difference than a rank 7 plane that can go 50kph faster.
A rank 6 tank with 350 vs 400mm of pen will basically perform the same execpt in some rare cases.
The title post is talking about how the features found on the 2S38 are found on vehicles that are 11.0+ while it’s at 10.0 BR rating.
One of those features is its anti-air capability which rivals the Otomatic (lacking its radar).
The other is its penetrating fast firing round which rivals the HSTV-L (lacking its mobility / gun depression).
Considering that both of these tanks are 11.3 then a seemingly fair BR for a vehicle with both their capabilities with slightly worse performance in both features would be 11.0, not 10.0 where it outclasses every other IFV found in the game.
i agree but i dont think thats what he was saying
The % difference of 10mm when the start is 225mm of penetration would be worth discussing if the vehicle in comparison had 215mm of penetration. It does, it has 50mm less penetration.
We’re not discussing 350mm of penetration versus 400mm of penetration, we’re talking about 170mm versus 225mm of penetration.
That makes the difference between the round going through a cannon breech and not going through a cannon breech.
The PUMA needs to have a variant modeled with Spikes.
Its BR is fine the entire BR range needs decompression.
plus we need a puma at 9.3 (the prototype with waaaaaayyy less armour) and probably no APS
edit:
replace ‘we need’ with ‘I want’
we probably dont need
“need” no, Germany has the Begel at 9.3
It needs a top tier IFV, the Puma with Spikes would provide this.
im playng bmp m2 in 11.7 and its most op thing i have experienced in game. idk howq u can compare and say bmp m2 is balanced and 2s38 owerpovered XDC
No, 2S38 doesn’t have features only available on 11.0+ vehicles.
Tracking with proxy fuses are at 9.0 and 8.7.
2S38 has IRST without a search radar, so a 0.3 bump over M247 in SPAA capabilities.
2S38 analogues in its size and power to weight are from 9.0 - 10.0.
HSTV-L is significantly smaller & faster than 2S38.
Anyone claiming that 2S38 is equivalent to HSTV-L is a HUGE fanboy of Russian equipment to embellish the 2S38 that much since it’s so obviously inferior to HSTV-L when you actually compare them.
HSTV-L vs 2S38:
Speed: HSTV-L.
Acceleration: HSTV-L.
Size: HSTV-L.
Ammunition: HSTV-L.
Thermals: 2S38.
Optics: HSTV-L.
Gun handling: Tied.
Gun depression: HSTV-L.
Armor: HSTV-L.
The only thing 2S38 wins at is thermal generation.
BTW:
PUMA vs 2S38:
Speed: Tied.
Acceleration: PUMA.
Size: I think 2S38.
Ammunition: 2S38. [Significant]
Thermals: Tied.
Optics: PUMA.
Gun handling: Tied.
Gun depression: PUMA.
Armor: PUMA. [Significant]
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I run a 10.0 Russian line up with the 2S38, BMP-2M (earnt not bought!), Sprut, Turms & Strella.
The 2S38 is a good & fun part of that line up but I don’t see it as being much better than my other vehicles. In all honesty the line up could comfortably go up to 10.3, but that is it.
The lack of gun depression on the 2S38 (and the rest of my line up) is a big factor, makes it harder to get shots and requires over exposing. It also does not spall much, it rarely one shots and the spall liner addition has made it struggle more especially when going up against the STRF 90s, I have yet been able to kill one in a 1 on 1 as the spall liner eats my rounds. Quite often I have to spam fire at targets which puts a giant ‘Shoot Me’ sign on my forehead with the noise & smoke.
I am not by any means a one nation player or a wallet warrior, I ground British top tier from bottom to top with no premiums, I also play USA 10.3 with the Abrams, Bradley, CCVL, AGS & Sgt York. I have bought a few premium vehicles to make grinding USA and USSR easier.
The 2S38 comes into it’s own when it gets a good flank, which is made much harder with recent map changes. It is good at SPAA but considering how powerful CAS is, this isn’t a bad thing.
USA, GB & USSR all have very strong 10.0/3 line ups, and feel quite balanced. The only issue I have with USA is how two of their best light tanks (the CCVL & AGS) are market place vehicles so are unobtainable to people who did not grind them (considering their cost).
I have not unlocked the HSTVL yet but if that is overtiered that does not mean the 2S38 is undertiered.
Where
It’s not equivalent, the HSTV-L was designed to act in an anti-tank role, the 2S38 was designed to engage low flying aircraft.
The 2S38 doesn’t have this represented in its ammo capacity.
The PUMA doesn’t have proximity shells nor does it have a high penetrating APFSDS round.
M247 and VEAK.
2S38 has its accurate ammo capacity.
Ah yes, dedicated SPAA platforms without access to APFSDS rounds.
Yes very comparable.
Total ammo capacity yes but as an SPAA it is not limited in the amount of APDS / APFSDS rounds it can take like every other SPAA in the game is.
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Which proves that 2S38 would be far below 10.0 without the APFSDS round.
And no, no light tank/SPAA is limited unless its manufacturer states otherwise.
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You can take it to 11.7 without loss in capability. That’s the problem with it.
That smoke prevents the enemy tank from being able to see you. Yes, firing at enemy tanks reveals your position, all tanks have to deal with this. Including other IFVs. Spall liner will only withstain one round before being destroyed from penetrating shots. It also doesn’t prevent the round from damaging the tank, just prevents major spalling.
The HSTV-L isn’t the main counterpart to the 2S38. It’s also not overtiered. The 2S38 is massively undertiered.
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