How To Fix Nuclear Escalation - My Short Thesis

I recently decided to give this game mode a try, and it’s great, but Gaijin really needs to work on AA—it can shoot down almost all the gliding bombs we send at it, and even light armored vehicles can hit us from a distance of 3–4 kilometers. The anti-air defense is a bit too strong, especially at the highest tiers.

Another issue is being matched into battles that are almost over. Yes, yesterday matchmaking placed me three times in battles where both teams had around ~400–800 points. Great—five minutes of play and a loss (I ended up on the losing team twice) :)

Another issue is the number of maps—it would be nice to have at least three available today; we only have one… That’s definitely not enough.

In short, this mode is awesome, and Snail should focus all its development efforts on it—it feels like a breath of fresh air.

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Playing Nuclear Escalation would be so much more bearable, if Units that have been spotted once would just remain spotted, even if it’s on a “Last seen at…” Basis. it’s really annoying that these “short” Range SPAAs and SAMs get spotted only after they already launched two Missiles at you, while operating on Frequencies not covered by some RWR Systems

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I love this game mode and I play ARB solely for the purpose of unlocking aircraft and modules to play in NE. I used to seldom play any air modes until this came along.

Personally I think a major part of the issue with the game mode are how the air defenses are too tightly overlapping. Everyone hugs the deck because of the long range SAMs constantly saturating the area and how quickly (and without warning) the SHORADs will engage. The detection and engagement ranges of the SHORADs could easily be reduced and the long range SAMs moved further back. My wish is there was a larger no-man’s zone both laterally and vertically where PvP contests the airspace the most.

I mostly play 10.0-11.3 BRs and the lopsidedness between red and blue is pretty apparent. To kill a long range redfor SAM, you need to kill 3 targets, and if you kill a BUK TEL, you’ve reduced its effectiveness by 50%. Conversely, a bluefor SAM site has THREE independent track radars and a search radar that needs killing. Compounding the issue is the limited fire and forget munitions that redfor (soviet) aircraft carry (not to mention the AV-8B NA is at 11.3 with flippin JSOWs).

If I want to make lions, I go play bluefor and enjoy the ezmode. If I want a challenge, I play Soviet. I would love to see the BRs rebalanced a little to account for this, or go back to BR bracketing.

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Absolutely. That’s my biggest gripe with it - not the quantity, but just how many are overlapping.

I liked bracketing whenever I wasn’t using 14.0s. The overlap resulted in 50% of my games in the F-15E getting uptiered, which was a huge pain when trying to play with friends who wanted to use 13.7s.

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Man. What the fuck. How is anyone able to reasonably attack enemy targets that are literally driving past friendlies while staying a safe enough distance away to not get shot down???

This is absolutely ridiculous and is exactly what I mean by the distances need to be increased.

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Welp, screw A-10 players ig

11.7 is not top tier.

All BRs use the same map.

Flying another 4-8km is not going to kill you regardless. The A-10 similarly does not operate in threat environments that are contested to the degree that NE is. It is an edge case.

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This happening over and over really gets tiring

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In the same case i didn’t spawn and immediately i left game.
I didn’t lose the daily bonus and neither i had crew lock.

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I like it, also another suggestion would be addition or recon jets like U-2 to scout out locations of enemy depots, long range SAM position, airfields, movement of convey etc (Also this would mean that location of enemy targets won’t be visible on map at start of the match)

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opened a thread which is now closed on this (sorry for post clogging stona):Nuclear Escalation, lets discuss where it is at

what most from that thread said in general:

  • SPAA respawn times are too fast and frequent
  • SPAA is greatly busted with no proper counters (ECM, jams, etc etc)
  • lack of guidance for people to play the mode (a CC should make a guide)
  • the removal of the 3rd stage and the “Grand Prize” really decremented a lot of folks interest in the mode
  • 5th gen and associated mechanics testing could be done in this mode if modernization is properly done in preparation
  • many other ideas and thoughts were shared as well that are quite elaborate, read if you care :)

will be more respectful of posting in proper places but thats what i have to add from my thread

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I left this on another now locked NE thread so I’m gonna repost it here.

Here are my thoughts on NE and what could be done to make it one of the best game modes in Warthunder.

First I want to start by saying that NE is conceptually great and has really good bones. The idea of a longer semi-progressive game mode that makes full use of the games vast roster of aircraft types and capabilities is everything I wanted WT to be. In many ways it reminds me of the early days of Warthunder back when Realistic Battles were called Historical Battles.

Positives out of the way there are a few keys problems that I think Gaijin needs to address to make this a truly amazing game mode.

Quickly before I start my list though the honorable mention:

AA sucks in NE.
I’m going to bring it up a few times later in this post but I think many of us agree that AA in NE just makes the game mode unfun. It desperately needs to be reworked in a way that doesn’t make trying to do the most basic things a more frustrating task then playing RB in a strike jet. That being said I don’t want to get to much into detail on AA in this post because, in my opinion, the current state of AA and Gaijins unwillingness to do anything about it is a symptom of flaws in the modes design and not the problem in and of itself.

1: The Nuclear part of Nuclear escalation needs to go.
By how can you do that? Some of you may wonder. The nukes are the whole point you can’t remove them? I’m imagining some of you saying. Well hear me out. One of the big complaints I keep hearing over and over again regarding NE is how infuriatingly OP the AA is. It’s annoying to deal with, it limits options, and it’s generally unfun. The problem is that without the super OP AA the game would end incredibly quickly due to the nukes. If there were easier targets to go after that weren’t covered by the OP AA then players would farm these targets, unlock nukes incredibly quickly, and game modes would end very quickly. Nukes are also the reason rewards can feel rather lackluster in the NE. NE can be an incredibly lucrative game mode if you are regularly getting nukes, dropping them, and eliminating multiple targets. I’ve had an 80k SL game in NE because I got a lot of nukes off. If you don’t get a nuke though the rewards can feel like barely anything, especially if you get shot down by AA even once. When the respawn cost for a plane is 10k sl on the low end, it requires at least 4 targets to equal that 10k, and your very likely to get shot down by AA before with only 1-2 kills it’s very easy for players to rack up a bill in NE greater then any single defeat in air RB would.

So how does removing the nukes from “nuclear” escalation solve this. For the sake of this argument lets suggest that instead of using nukes players had to use their own aircraft with conventional or specialized ordinance to eliminate specific objective areas on the map. Lets also suggest an idea where AA still exists but only attacks aircraft within a certain range of the HVT’s. This incentivizes players to work their way up eliminating forward defenses to those HVT’s so that players can move in and then eliminate those targets. Now without nukes in the picture this game mode takes a bit longer, doesn’t feel like a race for the players, and AA doesn’t have to be nearly as oppressive everywhere on the map. The lower rewards are less of a problem because they are more easy to achieve so every player can have a fun, rewarding, and enjoyable experience. A design like this would also allow developers to tweak to push problem number to in a butter direction.

2: Warthunder is a PVP game not a PVE game.
What do I mean by this? I mean to say that at the end of the day most players playing warthunder would much rather die to an enemy player rather then the environment, notice how this comes back a bit to the AA problem. Because the most effective way to make money in NE is by dropping nukes players are more incentivized to get their own nukes and then go nuke racing for kills rather then play A2A, this also isn’t helped by A2A kills being rewarded far less then perhaps they should be. Combined with AA being so powerful that a fighter player might find their target dead before they get in range the reasons why someone might not want to play A2A further compound. In my opinion AA should be nerfed and incentives for players to run interception of ground pounders increased so that it falls on the players to both protect their own skies and push the objectives in order to win. A rework of high altitude SAMS so that they aren’t omni-present or only placed to protect certain targets or areas of the map would also open up different tactics for both attackers and defenders to use in how to approach the problem of achieving victory for their team. This type of design would be further encouraged in a game mode where victory isn’t simply the team that can race to nukes the fastest and then race the most nukes to the enemy team the fastest.

So as you can see the Nuclear part of NE has created a game mode that incentivizes the devs to create unfun environmental enemies while disincentivizing the pvp elements of the pvp game. NE could be an amazing game mode where each aircraft should be able to play a role in a fun and engaging way. In my opinion for NE to become that game mode it needs to replace the nukes with a variety of hvt objectives and, possibly, objective points that can be captured my friendly ground targets.

Thank you for attending my TED talk.

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Not that i have an opinion on your post, but 80k SL is not great at all for a match? That’s way less than what even a shitty ARB match will give you.

No, i correct myself, i do have an opinion.

It should not be a PVP gamemode.

We already have kill hungry ARB players hunting down defenseless attackers, we don’t need that issue to become even worse. You are already dealing with the mess that is your RWR due to the 5 billion SAM sites, and the invisible IRST missiles, having kill hungry stat padders hunting you down does not make the game any more enjoyable, even if you took away the AA, there is a reason nobody plays attackers in ARB, they’re completely useless and are free food.

You do realize that the obscenely strong SHORAD + long range SAMs enable “PvE” players to constantly have a safe bubble to either sit in or retreat into when threatened by PvP actions thus leaving them free to ground pound after using their brains a little. In the early brackets the majority of planes lack the capability to attack into the SHORAD bubble without dying while in the later brackets with fox 3s they can shoot into the defense bubble, but launches are from far enough away that if you react appropriately you shouldn’t die constantly.

Even if you think these players are just statpadding ARB brained players (and they probably are) they are still fulfilling the important role of CAP to slow down or even deny the destruction of friendly ground units. CAP becomes even more crucial when SAM batteries eventually get destroyed and nukes come into play.

Calling fox 3 spammers brained individuals is funny. If you want to call me a brainless individual, do it in person like a goddamn man.

IDK if it’s just me but every player type can serve a purpose in NE which is why I’ll never judge what someone does as long as they are good at it whether that be SEAD/BVR/CAS/AntiShip/Airfield Defender/Nuke Escort/NUKE etc.

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Great news everybody, stationary garrisons can now move out, because the game totally doesn’t have a problem with convoys randomly clipping through the ground or munitions not locking on moving targets. This totally would not lead to a increase of death to SPAAs moving at obnoxious speeds which players totally don’t have a problem with right now.