Top tier SAM are big verhicles and bushes would not help that. Pantsir, Buk, Spyder, Iris, Tor are big verhicles that can be spotted without scout drones.
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Bombers should be buffed against other planes
Planes shouldnt be as tanky as a maus when you 100% should be dead if i shot you in the face with HE belt
I swear,to this day i cant understand whats your point of view,you always change side each post…bruh
We do need to have variable of change models against ground vehicles
Cause no way…(Saying this cause i experienced myself and versus other players too so it goes both ways)…any plane would survive HE belt in the face head on,or even worse at higher tiers,missiles hitting me precisely but i can still fly somehow cause god knows why,my plane its all black cause in theory i should be dead…but i aint and to be honest,happends quite too often
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Singular 20mm HE shots shouldn’t be taking down planes.
I think you are onto something here.
AA that can double as a viable weapons platform like the Gepard shouldn’t be cheap.
AP belt? You’re light tank prices.
No AP belt? AA prices.
Just like how planes ammo belts cost more SP
Just embrace anti-tank SPAAG instead of trying to find a way to “punish” them in any way for it. I think the idea of “cheap throwaway vehicle” SP costs should be abandoned.
For SPAAG which aren’t specifically exploiting blatant BS like cupola shots and armor holes (hello 35mm Oerlikon), they generally have to pen the side of your tank. What’s the damn difference between dying to an MBT in one side shot or dying to an SPAAG in a barrage of 10-20? Are you not dead either way?
I would personally give as many SPAAG as practical their missing anti-tank ammo types, remove all tiny doctrinal ammo count limits on higher tier ones, and intentionally move the majority of SPAAG down with the expectation that they are going to shred tank sides. The more screaming from the community, the further down they move, until the screamers minds completely shatter in an irreparable fashion.
Giving something like the German Sd.Kfz. 6/2 its missing APCR belt would be realistic but not practical, as its BR is so hilariously low that it doesn’t remotely need such a thing. But giving that missing shell to the Ostwind would make perfect sense due to it facing generally nastier stuff. And that’s just one example - the same is even more true for all 40mm Bofors platforms from the likes of the M19/L-62 Anti (Everything) onwards.
Most SPAAG are completely missing their best rounds for tank busting. Only the Skink, ZSU-37/2, and like one other gun have no better ammo to give.
This may be a bit of a hot take, but making vehicles OP is not a good idea.
I don’t see SPAAG being able to routinely shred most or all tanks through their sides as “overpowered.” Simple as that. Really, SPAAG killing tanks is not inherently an overpowered thing.
We want average players to actually use AA decently, right? Then we have to make the AA actually worth learning to use from their perspective.
That means SPAAG must not be defenseless target practice for tanks that also struggle to hit planes not idiotically flying right at said SPAAG. Hence why I call for (re)buffing SPAAGs in that manner - stop demonizing their tank-killing ability, embrace it instead, and enhance that ability, while at the same time removing the bullshitty aspects that get people so angry at SPAAG - barrel damage, cupola shots, and armor holes.
If you want to embrace to SPAAs killing tanks, then you needa move the SPAAs up (though tbf they needa move up regardless).
My intention is to embrace them killing tanks, and intentionally move them down, moving them down further the more they get screamed about, until the screamers give the fuck up.
How badly do such people want proper counters to CAS, I wonder? They scream bloody murder about being bombed, rocketed, strafed, and missiled, yet simultaneously also procced to insist that one of the ideal counters must keep its hands tied behind its back.
Or you could just listen to the people pointing out an actual issue and move em up.
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I don’t see tankbusting AA as overpowered, nor undertiered. If anything, they’re overtiered. Do the folk complaining about CAS want counters to CAS, or do they want to remain tank puritans and keep demonizing one of the main things that could help them with their CAS problem?
Brotha,if i shoot in the face even with a pistol you should 100% die
I doubt your pilot its made out of steel
Problem with your suggestion is … Gaijin keeps raising the BR of those spaa so they have a much harder time performing their original task - shooting down CAS.
Vehicles like the Ostwind are fine as they are. They are too slow and have too little armor to “tank hunt”. Let them do their job - shoot at planes. They can pen most tanks from the flank as-is. There’s no need for them to be able to take on medium/heavy tanks frontally. They get caught by enemy - they should be fodder.
Giving SPAA AP rounds does not make them better able to handle CAS. It makes it harder since they WILL BE moved up in BR. The logic is flawed right from the start.
If you were talking specifically about shooting the pilot, then currently pilots are kinda silly considering a single .50cal to the nuts will kill em instantly, yet a .303 to the forehead will only orange em.
Well I, and many others think that SPAAs (which regularly shrug off sabots and 152.3mm HE/HEAT) being able to destroy heavy tanks and heavy mediums basically instantly head-on is too powerful.
No. Pretty much all 7.3+ SPAA should be moved up.
Thats what im saying
a 20 HE shell exploding your face should literally kill you on the spot but nope…
SPAAG need to move up with the tanks on the front line in order to then defend front line tanks against incoming CAS. Problem is, nearly all people attempting to use them simply will sit in their own spawns uselessly trying to spray and pray outside effective ranges while their front line gets repeatedly bombed.
Snail could just…intentionally not uptier them and change whatever statistical thresholds are being used to say “this SPAAG is performing too good.”
SPAAG were never about blocking things with their armor when “tank hunting.” Bullshit shot soaking in things like the XM246 and Coelian notwithstanding.
Many of those SPAAG can’t reliably pen the sides of opposing tanks that are quite common at their BRs, or they need to be literally touching the tank’s paint to do so (Ostwind APHE vs Sherman for instance). Cases like that absolutely need better rounds.
M19s and M42s are another example - KVs are quite common, and those AAs, which have already rather high-pen guns for AA, cannot even so much as scratch their paint from the rear outside of random armor gap exploitation.
I don’t see the “balans” problem with any SPAAG being able to actually threaten tanks outside of suicidally-close ranges.
Then intentionally don’t move them up just to spite the people whining OP about them. Simple.
In order for SPAAGs to be “effective” in War Thunder terms, they need to 1) actually move outside of their own spawn zones and 2) be able to reliably hit and kill planes which specifically AREN’T dumb enough to try headoning AA and then die.
I firmly believe that every SPAAG that its practical for should be as threatening to tanks as the likes of the Coelian and 35mm Oerlikon Gang are currently, paired with some form of lead indicator even for ones without radar, to ensure that SPAAG are intentionally so easy to counter CAS with that nobody has any justification left to complain about CAS at all.
I see solving the overall CAS argument as much more important than keeping SPAAGs’ hands tied behind their backs. Always will, because that CAS argument keeps harming every other game mode.
No SPAAG should shrug off either of those sort of rounds. That is a damage model problem badly in need of addressing, which should be addressed instead of first jacking up their BRs, maybe getting around to fixing the damage model issue later, and then those AAs are marooned at BRs they now lack the performance to stay at, so few people play them and they proceed to take 5+ years to accumulate enough statistics to move down to where they actually belong.
If a medium tank has so little armor that an SPAAG with APCR or APDS can frontally kill it, that’s the medium tank’s problem, not the SPAAG’s. Likewise with a heavy tank or armored TD.
Now are things like cupola shots and armor hole exploitation via nuclear 35mm APHE a real problem? Of course - so fix that instead of jacking up SPAAG BRs.
I severely doubt that, especially if the rumors of APHE nerfing next update are actually true. Current 35mm Oerlikon nonsense is exactly that - exploitation of old armor models and cupola shot BS.
They don’t need to be at the front lines. For 1) they would not survive long regardless of whether or not they can pen tougher tanks and 2) they can cover advancing friendlies so long as they move up some - of course they should not all be parked in spawn area.
We know this will not happen so it’s a moot suggestion
Ostwind APHE can pen 46mm at 100m and 33 at 500m - this can take out an M4A1 at under 500m which is as much as it should be able to.
If the slow and bulky KV is not immune to spaa from flank then what’s the point of using them? Their sole advantage over medium tanks of same BR is that they ARE immune to many vehicles that don’t have a big punch. Unlike T34s. Or Panthers for German side. Make the heavies fodder for quick-firing auto-cannons and then there’s no point in playing them.
It does not solve the CAS problem and creates a new one.
The spaa have such rapid fire, that giving them even more pen WILL wreck the balance. Basically it’s giving up on armor almost entirely. The mediums and heavy have such a low rate of fire compared to spaa that it will just be silly.
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