There might not be any spots where it’s 100% impossible to kill any tank of any skill level, but there’s plenty of maps with certain spots for certain tanks where killing the camper is near impossible for an average or even above average player unless the camper screws up MASSIVELY.
This is what makes CAS such a great balancing feature. It levels the battlefield no matter how OP the tank or the spot is.
aight, you didnt say it directly, i acknowledge that.
But if you think theres exist a power position that necessities use of CAS (power position which CAS is used to remove) and map rework would be required for such position in a mode without CAS, you are pretty much implying it.
You cant have power position that would require map rework for mode without CAS and at the same time claim CAS isnt neccesary to clear it.
Either such position doesnt require CAS to clear it and as such can be cleared with tanks only, meaning map rework isnt required, or
such position would be impossible to clear out without CAS, hence neccesiting the map rework.
Had to see this one in test drive.
Yes, for locking down the south spawn, this position indeed is powerful so you are correct in that regard.
BUT
you are entirely exposed to counterattack from E/F 5/6
so to call such position
would be overexaggeration.
Which indicates that this positions can’t be taken care out without help of CAS which is wrong.
Simple HE would destroy You there.
Like with everything that “needs” CAS to take care of it.
Or will actually force people to learn the maps and how to go around their problems.
That’s why DIRCM helicopters are the ones being used to abuse ground.
Someone just doesn’t want to play aircraft, it’s not hard to understand that.
The 8,8cm Flak’s cannon is the perfect height to allow me to stay in the lil ridge. An Su-152 tried to flank me from the right and a Sherman tried flanking from the left but failed.
The Sherman tried to shoot me but hitting the tiny area above my cannon just isn’t reasonable for a new or average player.
The Su-152 was audible long before he had a firing position so, iirc, he died as he rounded the corner.
That’s not an exaggeration, especially considering that was 4.0. The only tank that even let alone damaged me was a Btr-152. If it wasn’t for CAS, I would have been able to continue spawncamping till the match ended.
lmao
A simple HE would end this
I do agree with Ckasaron though. Adding TO would make it a precedent for smaller groups to also start crying to have their own mode minus x-vehicles. It also wouldn’t address the problem people have with SPAAs having the absolute ability to just shred tanks. “Oh, you could just nerf them and take their belts away in that mode”, I think that’s a little bit too short of a viewpoint. Also starter and endgame SPAAs became absolute worthless to grind since they don’t do anything half the time. Essentially these tt-branches of the tree would just sit there and became useless. Giving every player the ability to defend himself against CAS is objectively the better purpose. Sure, I don’t like playing aircraft myself, but if I would be given the opportunity to jump into a CAP-plane and get rid of my CAS oppononent so I can continue playing the round uninterrupted? I’d take the jump. Granted, you’d need to get used to flying planes first, but it shouldn’t be much of a struggle anyway considering you have to switch up your playstyle anyway between different nations, brs and tt-branches.
Of course they would be used, in existing Ground RB mode where with only people wanting combined aspect of the game, there would be much more air.
since its RB, your gun cam is in your barrel. thus, if you were looking down that spawn, anything above the barrel would be visible.
single 75mm HE shell would solve the situation in its entiriety.
and thats excluding someone attacking you from the aforementioned E/F 5/6.
many 4.0 tanks have access to HE shells.
again, excluding someone attacking you from the aforementioned E/F 5/6.
issue that could be solved by TO mode having its own separate BRs for vehicles, just like arcade/realistic/sim does, as now you could balance SPAA only according to their A2G capability and could completly disregard their A2A capability.
They would still be useful for the standard GRB mode, as no one is calling for it being replaced by TO.
earlier in this thread i provided an example that CAP isnt always the best solution.
If person never played planes before, I highly doubt he would have knowledge neccesary to operate top tier aircraft. Id say he would even struggle to warm up AIM-9B, moreso knowing when to launch it so that it connects.
And then it would come to matchup of experienced player in CAS plane vs. inexperienced player in CAP. One would absolutely clown on the other, and it wouldnt be the CAP plane doing the clowning.
No lol, it does not.
There’s a total of like 6 or 7 inches above the cannon for them to shoot. Pair that with the fact that these are new players using low velocity cannons at a distance of at least 300 meters . . . yeah the fabled single HE shell doesn’t magically fix all those problems. NOT TO MENTION I had a high velocity cannon, all my enemies were forced to fire from pretty much out in the open, and I could have shot any part of their tank and killed em.
There is no universe where camping spots like those, in tanks like those, are fair. CAS may not be a 100% necessity to kill campers like those, but it’s a 100% necessity to maintain balance with camper spots.
Edit: The chances of a new player knowing, not only that HE should be used against open tops, but that I was an open top AND THEN that new player successfully loading at HE shell, before sucessfully hitting such a tiny target are absurdly low.
It does, especially from sherman.
If You need a crutch then that is just a skill issue, not my false You are bad at dealing with campers.
Woah, sounds really hard, I wonder what are the chances of new player knowing how to use SPAA or air units!
That is perfectly doable shot from southern spawn to the position you were holding. @ULQ_LOVER, wanna jump in custom game on Golden Quarry and slap me with HE to demonstrate?
allright but thats not as much as position being strong issue as it is new player not knowing how the game works issue.
again, 300m is perfectly doable range for US 75mm cannon.
as long as their spawn protection ran out, yes you could just shoot any part of their tank and kill them.
but before that spawn protection ran out, they had window to counterattack you.
Fact that spot which provides cover and sightline to the enemy spawn exists isnt as much as camper issue as poor map design issue.
or we could have proper map design which doesnt allow covered positions have sightlines directly into spawn, but maybe thats just me.
allright but again, that not as much as position being strong issue as it is new player not knowing how the game works issue.
They don’t care if something is doable or easy to do, then will keep talking no matter if You provide evicende or back up Your claims.
They don’t care about new players, if they did then TO would be what they would suggest as it is much easier for a new player to first understand ground combat in TO to later hop into combined gamemode.
I think that revenge bombing is easier than carrying HE.
Nope. I could just drive forward and fully slip outta view.
These issues exist on every map. CAS is the only consistent solution.
CAS was the only legitimate counter available to these players.
Maybe doable in theory, but in practice shooting an 8 pixel target *before he shoots" you is not reasonably achievable.
These are two completely different discussions. SPAAs with apds ammo should be dealt with on it’s own as that also affects ground arcade.
Giving players a new TO mode would not be creating a precedent for other players to request even smaller partitioning of the modes. All it really does is make things equal between Ground and Air. There is currently an Air Realistic mode without player ground units. Adding Realistic Ground without player Air units evens-it-up.
Just because You lack skill on the ground, doesn’t mean that crutch is needed
Those aren’t the same thing.
Tanks on their own are a massive part of the game and definitely deserve their own mode, just like planes do. You’d need to add something like guns-only in ARB to create a precedent for smaller groups to ask for things like MBT-only, HEAT-only, etc.
Why would they be useless if you can use them in our current GRB ?
