150 SP to spawn something that isn’t guaranteed to have targets to shoot at is a lot.
So we either have to move SAMs higher, which will make them more balanced and by proxy give more targets to shoot at, or we let SAMs stay overpowered and make em cost alot to spawn.
Whole ground should be moved up to 13.0 ideally.
Honestly I’d say 14.0 by now.
Realistically tho, stingers should be facing 10.3 planes like the A-7D.
Typical toad comment.
Did you read the original post ? At least they should relocate.
Better: they could spawn in a useful vehicle and do some thing to win the game.
Finally a good question - I answered it in a Suggestion post in two parts that work together. Here’s a copy / paste:
Suggested Air Space balance improvements:
1. Limit Air Units Presence in Ground RB
Merging Planes / Helicopters Spawn Point pools (similarly to how Light and Medium Tanks Spawn Pools are merged) would limit multiple air spawns in Ground RB without removing the option entirely. It would also force players to actively decide whether they want to fly a plane or a helicopter for CAS as flying both would be much more expensive and unlikely to be available to them. I understand the FnF CAS spam is a frustration to many players, and this would synergize very well with the new Loadout Spawn Point system.
2. Remove SPAA as last viable option for losing players
Similarly, merging the SPAA Spawn Point pool with TDs and Heavy Tanks and increasing SPAA Spawn Point cost to a minimum of 100 would force players to chose their options wisely. SPAAs are currently so cheap to spawn (70SP) that they are the last resort to losing players / losing teams, often leading to 4+ SPAAs camping their spawn, not contributing to winning the game, and completely denying Air Space to even competent Pilots, since most SPAAs are very easy to use efficiently.
So instead of spawning SPAA, people would just leave the match.
So losing team instead of having to deal with enemy tanks now will have to deal with the air too meaning their game would be even harder to win.
Such nice words to just say that You would like to have easier wins/games.
It won’t work as its not about SPAA but CAS. Players spawn SPAA as result of CAS spam. Reduce CAS spam and players wont spawn SPAA that much any more. To reduce CAS spam, CAS SP needs to be extremely high.
This was tested as one event and it worked exactly as I said there. There were very few planes because SP was extremely high and very few SPAA because it wasn’t needed. Tank battles were very immersive even though it was a city map.
Other is to i troduce some semblence of a skill floor to using planes in order of viability of being implemented…
- No scouting and hit markers while in air - you need to now rely on your team using smoke shells and map/squad markers to identify where enemy vehicles are or visual feedback (muzzle flashes) to do so without their aid.
- No map markers while in air. You must use pilotage to find and identify the A point rather than be given a big waay target marker that exists out of universe.
- Restrict planes to cockpit view to significantly reduce situational awareness and force planes to maneuver in certain ways to look under them
- Turn the existing wind mechanic back on to force long distance bombs to require compensation when dropped.
Part of me also wants instructor gone from grb but thatd contradict the rb game mode’s main definition even if it would significantly cut down on aircraft accuracy by forcing people to use simified, realistic or full real controls. Currently planes have absurd ahistorical accuracy thanks to the combo of mouse aim and third person camera.
That is not to say absolutely cracked ground pounders are unable to replicate precise dive bombing outcomes - even i am able to be somewhat precise with frb controls and i am a fighter main - but irl even big boats in the pacific and large hangars, buildings in europe proved very difficult targets to the average pilot much less a comparatively tiny tank and that is before we consider jinking to evade aaa fire.
Just a jab at people that always said just spawn SPAA bro to tank players.
Relocate where on those small maps that simply aren’t built to accommodate such large vehicles.
They are useful when they can counter flying pests.
You wanting them gone so you can use and abuse a broken mechanic just shows your hand.
Competent pilots would clean up the AAs with their ground vehicle before spawning in.
Fewer planes doesn’t improve the game. A much simpler solution to the problem is make SPAA cost 100sp and increase cost with spawning other side tanks.
Agreed.
Why? All that does is serve to be annoying.
Ok no that’s just straight up stupid.
. . . what exactly is this supposed to fix? CCRP, CCIP, and bomb sights irl already accounted for wind.
Four wirbelwinds sitting in spawn doing nothing but giving CAS players more SP is bad for the game.
It does and it did in that test event I told about. Less planes means less SPAA which means more ground vehcles fighting over ground objectives.
Less planes and less SPAA means fewer more skilled planes which wreck havoc unimpeded.
The reason ARB matches in GRB are good is because it means CAS is distracted from bombing tanks.
No it does not. If SP needed for CAS is higher it would be quite the opposite. Less planes but with more skilled users. As it was on the test event I toold about.
Bombsights require manual adjustment, at least at WW2 eras and were highly inaccurate. I’m all for introducing realistic bombsights with the dials for you to play with.
There’s a reason people employed level bombers with pilot-operated sights and dive/glide bombing for precision strikes on railway lines, boats, specific factory buildings and convoys of materiel and personnel.
More modern stuff idk about and frankly don’t really care for too much to get stuck in with.
But for WW2 - consider the effectiveness IRL versus the absurdity we have in game being described here: Combat Aircraft Versus Armour in WWII - Operation Barbarrosa
If you do wonder how the bombsights and such worked, IL-2:GB has decent modelling for pilot-operated sights (Il2 and the like) and has tutorials on how to use it. Unfortunately, even Il2:GB has a greatly simplified bombardier-operated bombsight operation that is still far too accurate for the early-mid war but can act as a suggestion to the challenges that must be met.
You have to work to find your prey. Tank camoflague actually works (sort of - they’re still far more visible than IRL due to Level of Detail changes making the low-detail black blob pop against the simplified terrain) without markers.
I’ve flown simulator events done on large maps and finding tanks was an actual effort and required communication with the folk on the ground to do so with any success. Folk on the ground ended up using smoke shells to call for air support and we delivered as well as we could.
Even then, finding enemy vehicles was not always possible and that’s a good thing. That’s camoflague and soft cover working. If we were in the current GRB environment we could have just looked for red diamonds and chevrons and dropped blindly.
I’ll add that this does work better with maps actually sized for tank conflict. In the case mentioned, we had a map that combined Fields of Normandy with the normandy landing map and then added even more surrounding area without any red crayons of doom funneling tanks anywhere in particular.
It’s not. There’s a reason dedicated dive bombers had, at times, glasses on the bottom of their cockpits: Having to roll and twist your plane to look down yourself forces you into certain flight patterns that reduce CAS effectiveness. It’s not that hard to compensate for - you do the same doing BnZ and energy fighting after all - but it’s a restriction from the incredible power third person view provides.
Beyond forcing certain flight patterns it also restricts accuracy while strafing and bombing due to your nose being in the way, again forcing more realistic CAS outcomes.
May I suggest renaming this thread in a more appropriate “Lack of cognitive function in SPAA players” ?
It seems much more relevant, considering:
- the deflections, obvious biases and straight up inaccuracies right above
- such players keep camping their spawn, even after hundreds of in-game hours
- they won’t admit SPAA is under-costed, too easy too use and too efficient
Bonus: here are 20 tips to mitigate CAS. If you’re dying to CAS often, I call it Skill Issue !!!
Spoiler
Counters
- Spawn fighters – intercept or deter CAS
- Fire roof MG – use turret-mounted machine gun to distract and deter aircraft
^ Spawning fighters should not have priority as they don’t directly contribute to winning games – use the below instead
Cover & concealment
3. Use soft cover – smoke, trees, bushes
4. Use hard cover – buildings, rocks, hills, dips
5. Hide near wrecks – confuse spotting and guidance
6. Use camouflage & bushes – paint/foliage to break silhouette
Movement
7. Stay immobile – harder to spot when static
8. Stay mobile – harder to aim when targeted
9. Play hide and seek – move after CAS passes
10. Relocate after shooting – tracers and flashes attract CAS
11. Separate from teammates – avoid multikills and make targeting harder
Awareness
12. Keep map awareness – avoid open fields, know angles
13. Anticipate targeting – open-tops are prime targets
14. Signal CAS – warn teammates to react
15. Watch kill feed – spot incoming CAS spawns
16. Listen for audio cues – jets, bombs, missiles warn early
More tips
17. Time your spawn – avoid heavy tanks when CAS is dominant
18. Stick near AA allies – grouped defense deters CAS
19. Use terrain dips – reload/repair safe from strafing
20. Angle armor – glancing hits may save you
That’s what I said. Less CAS by more skilled players wreaking more havoc on tanks.
Sounds like you want simulator battles. There’s actually a game mode for that.
And thats OK. Many unskilled pilots is much worse than very few good ones. If there were only max 3 planes through the whole game session ground vehicles would focus on fighting for ground objectives and less SPAA would be needed. And that would actually improve game.
If I want to fly planes, I’ll fly them in ASB. If I decide to play GRB or GSB, I do so because I want to drive a tank.
What rooftop MG?
Hit markers and Scouting markers exist.
Maps are too small to move reasonably, hit markers and scouting markers nullify most of these.
CAS in Ground RB is actually balanced — it costs a lot of spawn points to bring in, requires staying alive long enough to earn them, and demands real skill to use effectively. And it’s not unstoppable — there are plenty of counters!
I almost never die to CAS, besides to LMUR and other Kh-XX at top tier. Funnily, these take no skill to operate effectively!
If you die to CAS often, it’s your fault. It’s a skill issue, not a CAS issue.
(see my post above for 20 tips to mitigate CAS in case of doubt)
Cheers !