How player skill with SPAA effects the CAS problem

Because skill doesn’t downplay the CAS problem, it makes it seem bigger than it is.

CAS pilots being awful at the job definitely downplays the CAS problem, as in reality CAS’ capabilities are much better than shown.

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The capabilities of everything is better than shown. We shouldn’t balance based on the best players, we should balance based on the average player.

Even then, CAS is typically played by above average players by the nature of costing extra SP.

By all means, ULQ is definitely a good player.

However, can you call what he did in this video to spawn a fully armed and dangerous F4U-4B “above average” gameplay?

He spawned a reserve tank, rushed capture point and hopped into a plane. A plane with 4 rockets and 2 bombs and 4 20mm cannon rounds (probably the best cannons at prop tier hands down with the combination of ballistics, damage and rounds per gun). The plane itself is amongst the best fighters at 5.7, too to boot.

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3 simple things to end all that bs,remove that fake ahh 1.5x overal G pull,remove the fake ahh multipath that shouldnt exist for the top end missiles and bigger and better maps for the new SAMs batteries…i know two of those this community wont give up because yall want to be handheld…

I witnessed something similar. Guy spawned M18 had some scouts/assists, died and than spawned fully loaded plane.

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Spoiler

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1 minutes 55 seconds.

Just amazing.

CAS spawn costs should at least be doubled imo, someone should make a suggestion for that, if it isn’t already done.

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Thats why that AAS game mode test was excellent. SP to spawn a plane was in range of half what it needs to spawn a nuke. There were very few planes (2 or 3 through the whole match) but those were quite deadly as players which spawned them knew how to use them.

Games were quite immersive.

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We don’t balance based on the best players, we balance based on the average players.

I once nuked in a Tiger H1. Does that make the Tiger H1 OP?

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It’s great flying.

But the damage model and how it impacts that aircraft is terrible.
Black tail section Black in Gaijins workd means completely destroyed no longer able to fulfill it’s purpose.
Then why is the tail still providing lift and control?

Damaged tail and no flaps and still able to pull a good amount of G to get that 190D. If War Thunder was realistic that Corsair spins out of control and crashes.

You know most maps are open fields, everytime I leave spawn I either get killed by a rat sneaking by or from the enemy spawn, or because by the time I get to a good position my team already died and the game is over.

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All of you are kinda missing the point - by insisting that people “earn” planes as “powerups,” you render them completely unbalanceable no matter what you set their SP cost to.

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There are other problems with even attempting to argue in favor of balancing around a given player…namely their own unique conditions.

Putting aside experience (which inherently varies between players), there are other unique qualities like graphics settings, squad play (done/not done) and such things as bushes that introduce variables.

Trying to cite one player’s experience as gospel simply doesn’t work…at the very least you have to look at vehicles’ theoretical capabilities, not players’.

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Note how defenceless the CAS is btw, as prop, he only has to move a bit once in a while and get some altitude and the CAS can’t do anything.

Even with a perfect aimbot you’d struggle to hit a plane with low tier CAS, let alone trying to predict lead and bullet drop. The CAS has 5 business days to react, and any mouse movement means that your perfectly aimed shot misses.

Think about it, if you are getting chased down in a prop by another prop, you just need to hit elevator/rudder when the enemy shoot to dodge. Now apply this situation where you have triple the separation and insane tangential velocity.

As an SPAA (below 7.0) your only hope to shoot down CAS is to wait in the middle of the map (spot in which you’ll be killed by enemy tanks btw) track a plane passing by and shoot just after he drop his bomb and fly straight.
And even then, If said player is makes evasive maneuvers just in case, you miss.
As an SPAA, you can’t protect your teammates from CAS, you can’t protect yourself from SPAA, and only a few can protect themselves from enemy tanks.

Meanwhile CAS can protect themselves against enemy CAS, against enemy tanks and against enemy SPAA, and are easy to spawn in, use, get kills and avoid getting killed, all of this while at any point they can repair ALL damage. In a tank, you can only replace 1 crew member, and this is on a capture point where a lot of enemy will try to get you, not to mention CAS lol.

And with how close the airfield are, it’s fast and easy to land, repair+re-arm and in less than 3 minutes you are back into the game.

This argument that CAS are in any way balanced against SPAA is ridiculous.

If you’re struggling to use SPAA then you’re doing something wrong.

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Absurd, we balance around vehicle performance. Balancing with the average player is exactly how the p47 was given an air spawn back in the day and how it was impossible to fight against (tho i’m getting of course).

To balance, ones must look at the strength and weakness of every vehicle and try to match them as much as possible. Player skill can make a horrible vehicle looks excellent or a absurdly OP vehicle look useless.

The best player’s opinions on said vehicles is only supposed to provide information about said “strength and weakness” and how they can synergies.

Especially in ground RB, knowledge on the maps and armor layout of vehicles makes more differences than the vehicles performance themselves. It’s why good player tend to favor fast vehicle with good gun.

And if we look said relative performance off CAS vs SPAA, the only moment spaa has the upper hand is when radar spaa with high velocity high rate of fire face early jets with dumb ordinance. And even then, the spaa can only protect themselve, as the CAS can simply go fly somewhere else.

So tldr:

CAS is either straight up better than SPAA or at least intouchable when played correctly. It can target every type of vehicle it will face on the battlefield while being safe from retaliation. It’s easy to spawn with minimal engagement from the player. It can repair and rearm at any point and be completely safe when doing so. And gets excellent reward from doing so, both soft reward: helping wining the game, and hard reward: getting kills,RP,SL.

Mostly a joke btw, but technically, CAS can even capture zone as you can land, taxi, and if you have some luck, take off. Extremely risky and unpractical, so I won’t use this as an argument.

Meanwhile SPAA can only hope to ambush an unsuspecting CAS. Is mostly defenseless against tanks (except a few). Has minimal impact, because CAS can get kills before the SPAA even has a chance to kill it. And, most importantly imo. The reward from playing SPAA is hilariously bad.

And realistically, it’s not something that can easily be solved.

  • Should SPAA become laser of death that obliterate any plane it vaguely looks at?

As mainly a tank player I would like it, but’s it’s clearly not the correct solution. Because 1, some unlucky souls has to spawn in said spaa to clear the sky, and in GRB spaa is arguably the most boring gameplay option you have.And 2, would make CAS a gamble of “is a spaa looking at me right now?”

  • Double/triple the spaa cost?

Maybe, I feels its the easiest and best way to solve this currently.
CAS is a extremely potent role that can single-handedly win a game. Getting to fly a plane should require you to perform well in ground first. Not just capture a point and get a random kill.

  1. It makes it much less likely to be repeatedly killed by cas early in the game before you can even do some tanks vs tanks.
  2. It gives SPAA a real impact, as making the enemy team lose ~1200SP can easily remove a player from the enemy team.
  3. It makes revenge kill in CAS a problem less common, players will much less often waste their hardly obtained CAS plane to get a singular kill

Another solution I’ve also heard way to put spaa player on another part of the map. And while it would solve the problem of tanks vs SPAA, CAS would still be free to attack tanks while easily ignoring the spaa side.

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And what’s your argument for that?

I played a few games and got some easy kills against unaware CAS?

You know it’s not enough right?

Objectively, like I argued for in my comment just above, SPAA is defenseless against CAS. You decide when and how to engage.

If you want, you can “duel” SPAA vs CAS.

The “best players” can spin the narrative that any vehicle is OP.

Why is your TL:DR section longer than the first section? 😭 😭 😭

SPAA is pretty much untouchable when played correctly, so I’m not quite sure what your point is.

The word you’re looking for is subjectively.

So no real argument right?

Maybe other people in this thread are right and you are a troll.

The “best players” can spin the narrative that any vehicle is OP.

This is exactly why I said “strength and weakness and how they can synergies”. Good player can first: Identify what is important in this game, like acceleration, top speed, armor, gun, turret traverse speed, ect.
They can provide subjective experience about the weight of each of those and how they can combine.

Saying “I got X KD, WR, or whatever” will never be a acceptable argument for balancing. Tho gaijin disagree and keep balancing with winrate from their own data, so whatever.

SPAA is pretty much untouchable when played correctly, so I’m not quite sure what your point is.

Please explain to the me, the poor lamb, how your spaa is untouchable. You can choose any SPAA any BR. The very fact that CAS can choose when, where and how to attack makes it already win the engagement.

CAS can be untouchable. Thanks to Airfield AA. SPAA will always be vulnerable to planes, unless they find a good enough hard cover and most building can be destroyed with bombs. I can think of the tunnel in Volokolamsk (not sure it’s this one tho) in which you are completely safe tho it’s a cap point so good luck staying alive here. But now the guy who was rushing for the enemy spawn gets a free kill on you. Amazing no?

The main problem of SPAA vs CAS matchup is that the best SPAA can get is a trade, even with radar spaa you can just fly high, dodge until you are above, and dive while dodging.

I’m not sure I mentioned it but the only thing that can directly counter CAS is CAP. But 2 problem:

  • The size of the maps makes it that unless spawncamping, CAS will always get a kill before CAP can destroy it. And I tried it in the He-162 and Me-262 at 6.7, despite being jets, you just don’t have the speed to intercept CAS diving from 2k on the battlefield only 5km away. They only reliable way is to circle the enemy spawn point and dive on them because they can pick up speed, Something I find quite scummy.
  • A lot of CAS plane are good fighters too, like the F4U-4B, excellent fighter at 5.7 while having a perfect bomb load for CAS role, which can let them fight long enough for a friendly CAS to take care of you.

Something that could be done is reducing the spawn-point for CAP, like spitfire, bf109, ect while making them unable to damage ground target. But at this point why not play ARB?

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