Good for you… I don’t care, I’m not lying, I’m mistaken… But I care not if I am mistaken or not, the fact you’re just pumping the crap out of these players, dragging this thread off topic, whilst claiming I am is just you being you.
This is a thread about how a player using SPAA can actually change the tide of battle, and as I have said many times prior, I just don’t think you’ve met your match in the way you need to to make you pipe down.
You’ve stat checked me rigorously, but you can’t actually admit that someone may just be better than you in your plane, in an SPAA.
The topic can be about skill when both sides have equal chances, no matter the change, the fact is in most cases air has the upper hand which was proven many times over. But I guess that the person who doesn’t care about being wrong won’t accept it as it doesn’t support his agenda.
This are facts, not fallacies which again were proven.
Just because You can’t face the truth doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. That is why there is no point in discussion with You as You are just destroying the topics with things that are not about it and doesn’t care about any proves as You only care about what You belive in.
You are living in a dream world - most players will not spawn first in a CAP or (non-tank-killing) spaa.
It just won’t happen, and the game will be much worse.
As other have said - multiple times to you - you can’t force players to play something they don’t want.
Just like you can’t force players to stay in a battle after 1 death.
Forcing a square peg in a round hole = A BIG MESS.
As for your comments about a half-a$$ed TO only mode being slapped together… why the heck would it have to be half-a$$ed? Take the current RGB, copy it to a separate mode, and remove the ability to spawn air units. Not rocket science or re-inventing the wheel.
Unfortunately this wont work. It was tried in the past during WWII chronicles events and it was complete disaster. As soon as one side established air superiority it was basically game over for other side. Planes were easily camping air spawn so one side couldn’t bring in any planes nor CAP nor CAS while other side CAS was roaming free. One could get easy victory without even touching ground vehicle just by keeping sky clear and allowing his side CAS to kill ground units. Bringing more planes is not the answer.
It works in SB because of full real controls and cockpit view.
Not in the terms of this topic, and the topics before it… There are many instances where planes have been got by SPAA, SPAA that cost a third of the plane to spawn, and many times where planes have been got at no reward so they can’t continue spawning.
And before you cry that I need proof, I think you should just pipe down, unlike you I don’t take screenshots of everything to boast and gloat at the slightest opportunity, but SPAA can be spawned, and used, to stop the plane threat before it rips the team a new one…
But left alone it will destroy the team, and attitudes like your buds here who hang around like a foul stench, false reporting posts and heeding your beck and call, will make sure that no-one even bothers, so they exasperate the issue.
So again, they are fallacies, because if you don’t do anything, you’re surely going to be toast, but if you actually do try, you may succeed…
The fact that was said so far on down the track, it’s absolutely nothing but an excuse to make out that I’m the issue, as you always try to do…
There’s been at least 100 posts between us, and that being the last 10, so it’s hardly the gotcha you want to make it out to be…
As I said, it’s just you trying to poke a hole, after so much has been said and passed that it’s just pathetic.
It’s about using the SPAA, and if no-one does, then the team will be reamed… If you don’t want to, then you better be sure that someone else will… If you’re not going to, then don’t complain that you aren’t able to get them, or that you have to die first or anything because everything mentioned is an excuse to avoid.
Literally, if you ignore the fact that a vehicle is there to cope with what you don’t like, and you CHOOSE to not use it, then suck it up, because there’s nothing to make anymore cope for you being got.
I am quite awake - I am merely looking at the bigger picture beyond SilkMonger’s/ULQ’s situation in a vacuum. And what is that bigger picture?
You hardly have much grounds to complain when literally the CAS has the choices of either 1) bomb you/your team’s tanks or 2) do nothing at all. It, like every other vehicle class, is currently very constrained in what it is allowed to even do. To me, that is the bigger issue, because all this talk of it being “OP” can go back and forth until the heat death of the universe and folk like you still will treat Tank-Only Mode like its “The Prophesized Second Coming As Foretold 2000 Years Ago.”
Yes, but what I am saying is that expected role is more than capable of being changed for the better for everyone, including the two of us, despite our seemingly-opposed opinions.
APHE in general shouldn’t be able to do cupola shots, that’s a long-debated topic. But the same people who complain about SPAAG now simultaneously voted against even testing historically-accurate damage output.
Yes, nobody complains about CAS in Combined Naval because CAS is even more purposeless than it is in Combined Ground, in addition to the overkill AI-controlled AAA rendering all but maybe 2 planes with guided anti-ship bombs guaranteed one-way trips.
But hey, at least giving people good AAA and default aircraft ALSO strangled “Naval-Only Mode” in its crib…so perhaps Combined Ground needs the same concept - hence where my idea stems from.
And as I said myself - I’m not forcing anyone to do anything.
I’m making the counters so everpresent and easy to use that a person has to be an exceptionally stubborn fool not to at least learn how to use them should the situation demand.
It’s not meant to change your opinion - anything I say is not bound to do that, only you can change your opinion on this or any matter - it’s meant to ensure that if you dare complain, everyone else who’s not on either entrenched camp of this argument looks at the people whining about CAS like the fools I see them as. Making the counters everpresent and easy to use forces a choice on you and folk like you 1) adapt 2) accept your chosen mediocrity 3) try to complain and humiliate yourself or 4) leave.
You tell people to “just go play Air Modes” yet you fail to grasp that changes Snail made due to ceaseless complaining about CAS ruined much of my ability to enjoy CAS in Air RB. And I blame folk like you for provoking Snail’s harebrained tendencies more than I blame Snail themselves.
I’d guess at least half of Snail’s most infamous changes were them reacting to some group of players screaming about something.
Under how Snail did it before, the bots didn’t play any significant role in helping ensure a winning match outcome and paid so little RP/SL that it was not worth the time. Of course no sane player would do so.
Hence why a large swath of my reforms are to add in those missing objectives for CAS (and also Tanks) to kill, making their rewards equivalent to killing players, giving the players everpresent and easy-to-use counters to coerce the CAS to focus on the bots first and then players later, removing the kill cam and airspawns and other idiotic mechanics encouraging revenge so the counters have more time to swat down planes looking for revenge, essentially reward coercion when it boils down to it.
True, but that is entirely your choice and not up to me.
Honestly I wonder why these people are still even playing this game if they hate it so much? Like sure, for now WT still has a semi-monopoly on its sort of Simcade-style combat. But due to its various inadequacies, various smaller games are rising out of the fog to answer said inadequacies.
Nuclear Option to address the utterly pathetic 16v16 missile deathmatch and now Missile-Countering-Missile madness of high tier Air RB.
Gunner, HEAT, PC! to address WT’s consistent refusal to add a Tank-Only Mode…so some dedicated fans of that idea finally stopped bothering to sabotage forum threads and decided to go make their own game.
And various better Naval games have existed for quite a number of years, with more in recent years, though I don’t know if WT motivated their existence or not.
They did the same to me, too, man. Seems to be a common occurrence when they run out of any sort of non-preference-derived logic, they resort to personal attacks.
Hell, when I was proposing seemingly radical reforms to Air RB, one user on the old forum went so far as to stalk my replays and assemble them into a YouTube video to try and humiliate me, but it seems someone made them take the thing down years ago. Wouldn’t be shocked if someone else said “wait this is harassment,” because I was too incredulous that someone would go that far just because they can’t come up with much logic in a damn internet forum discussion.
This guy probably gets off on being relentless. I doubt anybody will be able to “make him meet his match.” The only thing that can potentially happen is real life gives him a major reality check so his time lounging on internet forums is obliterated (like happened with me during much of graduate school).
What I think will happen, based on genuine experience from prior times CAS was particularly spammed, as well as seeing how the average player reacts when anything is a “new shiny” is:
Stage 1: CAS will get spammed for a couple days.
Stage 2: People armed with the rebuffed SPAAG and CAP will quickly learn to swat them down, causing teams that spam too much CAS to consistently lose games via burning up all their SP.
Stage 3: Things will gradually settle down to a new normal.
Even during the height of the 1.69 nuclear HVAR/RP-3 spam, people were in fact learning to spawn CAP consistently enough to swat most of it down long before Gaijin decided to neuter the weapons.
Correct - but you’re missing my point. The goal isn’t to “force” you to do anything. Rather, the goal is to make the intended countermeasures so common-sense, everpresent, and easy to use that it would take an insane person NOT to at least TRY learning how to use them.
This does not “force” you to do anything. What it does instead is set things up so if you dare complain how CAS is somehow still “OP” even with everpresent, easy-to-use counters, you humiliate yourself in front of everyone else who isn’t taking either side of this and related discussions.
Your complaining about CAS now would look like it’s entirely your own damn fault, not worthy of sympathy, and definitely not worthy of any more boneheaded weapon nerfs on Snail’s part.
The fact that you still don’t think about the immediate or long-term implications of adding such a game mode shows me you aren’t being remotely serious, and that your mode idea is merely a rage-induced blind thrashing in all directions without regard for whom you hit.
Do you really not even consider playerbase splits, both in general as well as based on nation people play? Does it not even register up there how Snail is hyper-sensitive about queue times and how a double-whammy effect of both a rough split and uneven population of specific nations in specific game modes would cause problems in both?
Do you really think that every map will just work flawlessly without any means to dig people out of entrenched spots? Do you really think that Snail would NOT proceed to invent some replacement anti-camping mechanism that very well could be more annoying than CAS, causing you to have played yourself in pushing them for this mode?
Do you really think that other players after seeing Snail suddenly pivot on this contentious issue they previously denied more times consistently than any other that said pivot wouldn’t then inspire various other equally extreme sub-factions of the playerbase to then scream bloody murder for their “[Insert Vehicle Type]-Only Mode”(s) too?
The fact that you aren’t thinking about any of these sorts of outcomes makes the entire TO mode idea look like an enraged shitpost.
Part of Chronicles Events’ issue was the fact that planes airspawned, first of all, which is a general problem of all non-Simulator modes. Second, SPAAG were, as they are today, not given any sort of aiming help prior to Radar AAs existing, causing most average dumb players to spray from 5km out, beacon themselves to CAS, get swarmed by CAS, and then some hop on forums complaining AA are useless without taking the slightest bit of accountability. Third, general problems of the kill camera still applied for planes that weren’t immediately taken as first spawns.
I have played my fair share of Chronicles events in the past before Snail discontinued them. I remember the swarms of P-47s and P-51Ds trying to drop bombs constantly, and how usually they ended up screwing themselves over because they wasted so much of their spawns and time in general on CAS.
I am expecting initial spam of CAS before it would then settle down under the proposed changes I laid out. I have seen enough cases of people spamming “the new shiny” to know how they will act. And that is precisely why I also laid out countermeasure empowerment so extensively to encourage people to fight back against said spam.
Because it’s not “just tenk battles.” Never was except in the very earliest Closed Alpha/Beta testing.
My overarching goals are to actually solve the problems of CAS implementation globally. Ditching the revenge mechanics. Empowering all the counters. Ditching the concept of planes being “killstreak powerups.” Giving planes and tanks worthwhile objectives to go kill besides each other so the diehards in arguments like this get off each others’ throats.
And most importantly, boxing in the whiners who refuse to use the counters with their own stubbornness so their whining can no longer result in more ordinance nerfs that bleed into and ruin the very Air Modes they go tell me to go play.
You and I seem to have arrived at the same general conclusion on how to deal with these sorts of people.
You don’t “deal” with them at all - you make the game grow past them and leave them behind, to where their “preferences” now become liabilities that will garner no sympathy from onlookers.
For people who complaining about CAS, problem is can’t fight back until i die. How your suggestion helps me? Tank vs CAS plane 1 vs 1 that’s how game works, tell me how your suggestion helps me. You talking about having free counter plays, most people have researched AAs, but again problem is 1 vs 1 situation where I’m defenceless and in order to fight back - have to die first.
For you problem is not enough AI targets for CAS(?!) not everyone having countermeasures, which is incorrect - most people have, it’s just can’t be used until you die.
Your suggestion changes nothing here.
ABOUT KILLCAM:
As i said, i don’t mind deleting it (if most players want), but what it gives? Yes less revengebombing - but problem with tank vs CAS situation still same.
Again your suggestion changes nothing.
GIVING EVERYONE FREE LINEUPS:
Shortly - Gaijin will never do it (especially spaded lineups as you suggested). This suggestion destroys whole concept of game, why the hell do i bother to spade my own vehicles, or research planes if I’m getting everything free.
And again, this suggestion changes nothing about tank vs CAS situation.
I have answered almost all your comments, for last week maybe (don’t remember) and understand one thing - you have no idea why people complaining about CAS (it seems you don’t want to understand). You said you looking situation not as like 1 vs 1 but 16 vs 16 - that’s mistake! If WT was strategy game, yes it would be 16 vs 16, but it’s not behind all 32 vehicles sitting real people and they CHOOSE to play ground battles for reason (to play tanks obviously). I already wrote about it several times (about forcing people play what they don’t want).
I’m not going to answer any more your comments, i wrote enough reasons and explanation. But as always, CAS girlfriends do: write few suggestions (which doesn’t effect problem) after getting answered with criticism, start circling about not working suggestions and calling everyone (who don’t agree you) bullies.
Anyway, all the goods for you mate 😘 sorry but, as i explained many times - your suggestions changes nothing, so… No point for further discussion.
That was not an issue but only good thing. There are planes which excell at climbing so automatically all others are in worse starting position. Also camping airfield is even easier because you know exactly where plane is coming from and its very low on energy.
The issue was at the start there were 6 planes in the average per side due to ability to spawn planes first.
If enough players still want combined it won’t be a problem.
As for wait times in TO - most people switching to that mode will not have a problem as they are getting the game-play they have been looking for. Not everyone has ADHD.
Yes they will work. Instead of relying on the crutch that is CAS, ground players would actually have ground strategies. And in current RGB the CAS is used way more often on players capping or just moving from spawn to some other area of the map.
And your walls of text just look like someone rambling on and on who just wants everyone else to play the game the way YOU do - as if you are the only one who is right.