To be fair both are a problem so I see where you are coming from
2 Likes
My top three CAS planes combined almost has as many kills as my top tank.
And that “everyone else” was going to ruin experience for me and my team “everyone else”. So I just send them to shadow realm with s25o
2 Likes
if CAS can dislodge a camper or someone in a good position, it can dislodge anyone else on the map.
whats more fair? a good ground position, or godmode than can smite you uncontested?
3 Likes
What’s more fair. An unkillable spawncamper than can stop 15 players from playing the game, or a killable plane than can kill one, maybe two players if it’s lucky?
Please tell me what position allows You to be unkillable
Edit: I hope mods can see false flagging people
8 Likes
this is a hyper dependent question such as if there is only one way to get to the guy and he’s got that on lock down, Breslau B is a good example of this, then it’s not fair nor fun to go there, Ash river as a whole is like that
while at the same time I can understand the annoyance and frustration of the entirety of the United States Army Airforce baring down upon you. Although yes I full heartedly believe that a Tank only mode wouldn’t make players happy because 95% of them, the maps, are unbelievable dogshit
Personally I’m of the opinion that all SPAA should have any kind of AP round removed and then have their BR’s adjusted where they can better engage aircraft.
2 Likes
SPAA don’t have any issue engaging aircraft currently, especially 1980s radar SPAA being pitted against 1940s and 50s planes.
There’s only a handful of SPAA that struggle against air, but I’m pretty sure most people would prefer playing the ZSU-57 as a TD over actually playing it as an SPAA.
unkillable spawncamper? ive never seen one.
regardless, its a map design issue. instead of being defensive about tank-only, it would make sense to push for a massive map upgrade, to rework size and terrain across the board. thats the only valid solution.
looks like the forum tradition is still alive, flagging a comment when someone responds in a way that makes it hard to write semi believable ragebait
6 Likes
You know, this game has a lot more vehicles that predate the 1980’s and don’t have radar.
And they don’t have any issues engaging aircraft currently. 7.0+ SPAA is just especially overpowered.
Do you ever get tired of being this way when the cas is clearly the problem
5 Likes
There is word for that but it seems is not allowed in discussion because he called mod to remove it.
You are trying to convince people him because he will denied anyway.
Except…CAS itself actually isn’t.
The way it is implemented as a dumb killstreak powerup IS. As are the people who irrationally hate CAS - they have caused more damage to the game’s overall playability than the CAS itself could possibly have done.
And the irony is that all this shit is in fact quite solvable without needing to add new game modes.
The idiotic game mechanics that allow it to be so annoying need total removal - the kill camera, the midair spawn, the “sky is for heroes” spawn point system, and the giant text messages on cap zones being taken over functionally acting as “please bomb/rocket/missile guy here.”
Make the counters to CAS everpresent and downright piss-easy to take down CAS with. Undo all the nerfs to SPAAGs and SAMs, both to their anti-air and anti-tank performance. Copy over Naval’s concept of default planes force-fed into every player’s deck. Expand the default SPAAG system of high tiers down to all BRs. For CAS to even hope to be balanced, the counters have to work, and every player must have the counters by default with the option to bring more of their own.
And finally, start adding the missing objectives for both planes and tanks to kill. Planes mostly didn’t go after tanks directly but utterly shredded logistics and bunkers - yet current CAS doesn’t have these available to kill, where logistical pain can be simply represented via ticket hits.
Tanks in general need much larger maps, objectives that actually fit larger maps (not dumb 3 caps), and more things to do besides just try finding each other or hiding from CAS.
As far as I’m concerned, CAS is unfairly demonized when it’s dropped into an environment that gives it literally nothing else to do BUT be the biggest pain in the ass possible.
3 Likes
Imo, trying to balance CAS with SPAA is the wrong way to go. Instead, SPAAs should be made cheap disposable deterrents, and players should be given more incentive to spawn CAP as an actual counter.
I view it as a “stuff every conceivable counter down the whiner’s throats until they choke,” sort of situation, so why not both?
SPAAG need to be just about as easy to use as CAS is, approximately with the same learning curve as learning every other tank cannon. We cannot have SPAAG be treated like a commodity but be priced like a luxury in regards to their learning curve, or we solve nothing. To that end, as I have proposed before, I would:
- Give all non-radar AAs, heavy flak AA-TDs, and SPHs short-range lead indicators based on the existing Rangefinding crew skill. Bone stock crews get it from 0-1000m. Aced crews get it out to 1600m. Planes get far more benefit from the mouse aiming and 3rd person camera used to make this game what it is, while SPAAG are not given their real numbers advantage when engaging planes and are resultingly as defenseless to all but idiot pilots like lone bombers are in Air RB. That is my justification for the admittedly unrealistic aiming assist - the unrealistic environment and nature of their opposition.
- Global APCR and APDS penetration and post-penetration rebuffing up to historically-accurate levels.
- Removal of all forced-mixed belts on APCR & APDS, and removal of all artificially stupefied shell count limits on APDS/APFSDS on high tier SPAAGs. We have IFVs running around like they own the place with as much APFSDS as they want - thus insisting AAs have limits is completely hypocritical when IFVs are faster, lower-profile, usually also have ATGMs, and some even get lead indicator functionality.
- Introducing all missing APCR and APDS rounds to any SPAAG currently lacking them, while intentionally fixing their BRs so that people fucking learn SPAAG will and should kill your tank through its side, and you’d better learn to deal with it and shut the fuck up.
Separately, on the aircraft side of things:
- Copy over Naval’s idea of giving people default planes in their decks whether they like it or not.
- Extend the Default SPAAG system from higher tiers, itself based on Naval’s default plane idea, to all ranks. Personal preferences to not care about SPAAG or CAP are not an excuse for crying for CAS nerfs under any circumstance.
- Copy over Simulator Mode’s SP system while globally making all tank spawns much cheaper and unlimited until the player runs out of SP to use. Every player gets 1000 SP at game start, but they cannot earn more. Tanks cost 50-80 SP and do not double upon death for spawning the same unit. Planes retain their pretty high costs they have over there when fully loaded with ordinance. CAP is intentionally rather cheap. Personal preferences to not care about spawning CAP are no longer an excuse for crying about nerfing CAS under any circumstance.
Then every single player has all the possible tools they could need by default, and can bring their own with them if they research and crew them. But its their choice if they learn to use, let alone bother spawning at all, with those appropriate counters.
Then the problem solves itself - the “whur muh tenk onli mode?” people are effectively told to put up or shut up.
4 Likes
Why? Because I dare to suggest CAS isn’t the issue in and of itself?
I’ve played this game for over a decade. Time and time and time again, I see more often than not the exact same people rant endlessly about “how they are helpless against CAS.” Snail responds to such crying by repeatedly nerfing CAS weaponry, which also has nasty collateral damage effects on Air RB and Naval RB, that at multiple points in the game’s history caused CAS weaponry to become so unreliable that Light Pillboxes were indestructible without using cannons and Player-controlled ships were often immune.
Therefore, to stop the idiotic repeated nerfing, I choose to go after a different target.
The people doing the complaining.
You say you’re “helpless” against a Maverick from orbit? Or against a P-47 stuffed to the gills with bombs and rockets?
Then I propose giving people like you the exact tools to not be helpless anymore. But in exchange, you now have no excuse left to complain with - if you have the tools to kill the CAS you hate by default in every match, and you choose not to use them, it’s now a problem with you, not the game, therefore justification to keep on blindly nerfing CAS weaponry evaporates with your salty tears.
I’m not going to dare claim that the people who hate CAS are completely bereft of valid criticisms, but nerfing CAS weapons isn’t the answer, and Gaijin’s consistent denial of modes without CAS should have told you by now that said modes simply aren’t happening before the heat death of the universe.
Therefore, I talk actual solutions to the messes - give people the means to help themselves and teach them how to use them. After all, isn’t it much more satisfying to kill the thing you hate with your own two hands?
2 Likes
You see that CAS ?
Just spawn a plane of your own and kill it, you shouldn’t even play tanks in a tank mode.
Gaijin could’ve solved this CAS issue extremely easily, but I guess they aren’t really keen in killing their combined aspect, regardless how bad it actually is.
1 Like