How player skill with SPAA effects the CAS problem

[BiFoxGuy]

@Busheedoh

While sure, this leads to the strangely beneficial scenario where missiles fired by SPAA can practically ignore something the multi-pathing effect. especially when firing at helicopters hiding behind trees and such.

As I wrote above, in reality, SAMs are located in positions that do not provide dead zones for aircraft to attack. And naturally, the radar is not located near trees/buildings/cliffs/hills as in our stupid fantasy game.

@Busheedoh

It goes without saying that positioning is important no matter what mode one plays in War Thunder. It is incredibly important in SPAA, as simply sitting still presents you as way too easy of a target. So, simply find positions that provide you with an advantage. Be it concealment, solid cover, unexpected angles of attack; the list goes on and only your imagination is practically the limit. Which sends us to our next issue.

Hahaha, very “good advice”, but in the game it works on a very small percentage of maps and not for all units of equipment. Try hiding such as ITO90M, Pansir S1, FlakRakRad, etc.

@Busheedoh

But you suddenly remember you are a self-propelled anti-air system! You can move under your own propulsion! You can simply redeploy yourself to another position. And if you’re lucky, you might have smoke grenades to confuse the plane hunting you. So you move to a new position, what now?

Let’s be honest and not repeat this fairy tale about changing the location of the SAM? “I am especially very pleased with the maps” of 500-500 (maybe 700) meters in size, flat as a desktop. This gives you an excellent way to choose a place for your grave - to die from an IFV/Tank/etc.

@Busheedoh

So you’re now at a new position, you turn on your radar and see that the plane which was hunting you is heading for your previous position and is only 10km away!

Oh my god, on paper it’s very simple, but in the game even gun radar anti-aircraft mounts can’t shoot down a straight-flying plane, not to mention a slow-flying or hovering helicopter. In reality, an airplane-helicopter encounter with a short burst of 30-35mm shells will end in a pile of scrap metal. I’m especially pleased with how such an aircraft as the Su25 survived two of my FIM92Ks with Ozelot and calmly flew on, continuing to destroy our team. Or the F15/F16 survived the 95Я6 (57Э6) and flew on, continuing to irritate me. Or how poor the controllability of the ASRAD-R Bolide is - after 5 km the missile starts swinging and it’s impossible to hit even a straight-flying target; I recently died on FlakRadRak after firing two VT1 missiles at an assault drone and died from his ATGM (secret plastic armor withstood 2 VT1 missiles, although in reality he would have died instantly after the first hit); Gaijin had a similar scam with ADATS MIM146 until recently, thanks to Devil06 for removing his missile sway.

Anti-aircraft missile and radar gun systems in the game are very, very weak compared to reality. If you give them real parameters and capabilities and make battlefield maps of normal real size, then aviation will play under completely different conditions, the first cocoon will be in range up to 5.5-8 km and height 3.5 km-5 km for MANPADS, the second air defense cocoon ~ 8-10 km in range and 6-8 km in height for systems like Roland, 2S6 Tunguska, ADATS and the third cocoon in 15-18 km and height 12-15 km ITO90M, Pansir S1, Tor 2M / HQ17. I have not yet taken into account purely cannon anti-aircraft installations like Gepard / DCA30 ~ 3.5-4 km.

The most fun should come from systems like Stormer HVM/Ozelot (naturally tuned for real confident shooting down of maneuvering targets in 7-9G). The plane will not even know that it has been captured, and even if it understands that darts have been launched at it, then in a cocoon with a diameter of 7 km, even in a maneuver in 9G, it will not escape its death. And yes, I have big questions that the optical IR tracking machine is so dependent on the weather as it is now in the game - it is impossible to capture a target further than 4-5 km in fog/heavy clouds.

Considering that Gaidzin announced the introduction of multi-component SAM systems into the game such as S-300 & Patriot, it is logical to move the respawn of aviation to a distance of 35-50 km from the battlefield. With the real parameters of the SAM in the game, aviation will actually move from one SAM cocoon of destruction of air targets to another.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Why don’t you do it yourself?

[realshatterisbad]

Because you are the one who made the claim? He has nothing to prove.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Surely if he’s ever played 8.3 then he can just check himself.

[realshatterisbad]

Surely if your claim is true you can just check yourself. YOU made the claim YOU have to have evidence of it if you want to be taken seriously. It is not his job to find evidence for YOUR claim.

[Pangolin_Fan]

I don’t need to prove anything to him when he doesn’t play 8.3. The reason I told him to get a screenshot at 8.3 is because he can’t.

[realshatterisbad]

I mean sure he doesn’t play much 8.3, but his message is still valid. You still made a claim with no evidence to back it up.

[Pangolin_Fan]

I think you missed the entire point of why his comment was so goofy. It’s like if a Reddit moderator told you to “prove” that the sky is blue. You don’t need to prove to a Reddit moderator that the sky is blue, in the same way you don’t need to prove to som1 who doesn’t play 8.3 that the Gepard is a powerful vehicle.

[realshatterisbad]

@Pangolin_Fan

in the same way you don’t need to prove to som1 who doesn’t play 8.3 that the Gepard is a powerful vehicle.

Yes the gepard is a powerful vehicle, but you said that you see it getting 5+ ground kills all the time (stats do not reflect that). I understand if it was hyperbole but this guy did not take it like that.

[ゴトランド]

He demanding proof and you can’t provide , that the end of the story. Don’t have to play ring around the rosy to show that you can’t back your take up

[Hudler]

@Pangolin_Fan

Why don’t you do it yourself?

Burden of proof is on your side.
You are the one claiming that gepards get 5+ kills all the time. I do not see them doing it.

[AlanHR]

That’s rich coming from a guy that doesn’t even have Gepard in the first place.

[Hudler]

I don’t really think he plays much above 8.3 to be honest, and he is not a good player to be honest

And with lineups like this:

I guess the gepards that get +5kills all the time that he won’t post a screenshot are in a room with us

[Cyvell_シ]

Generally speaking you can make lose claims about as vehicle you dont own, because youve likely run into it or might have a squadmate that has it etc. But these claims from Pangolin are wild, and the persistance to not even back up with screenshots, not even one. Dont take this guy seriously

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Hudler

I don’t really think he plays much above 8.3 to be honest, and he is not a good player to be honest

More specifically I don’t play much below 8.3.

@Cyvell_シ

Generally speaking you can make lose claims about as vehicle you dont own, because youve likely run into it or might have a squadmate that has it etc. But these claims from Pangolin are wild, and the persistance to not even back up with screenshots, not even one. Dont take this guy seriously

XD the funny thing is, I played 3 8.3 games in a row, and all 3 games an Gepard was topscoring with 3-7 kills, (and multiple braindead Gepards sitting in spawn doing nothing).

The only two plausible ways that people like AlanHR or the chinese name guy can say that getting 5+ kills is uncommon in Gepard, is if they either have never played 8.3, or are just so egregiously biased towards Germany that they can’t even possibly consider the idea that a German vehicle is OP.

They obviously have played 8.3, which leaves only one option.

[Hudler]

@Pangolin_Fan

and all 3 games an Gepard was topscoring with 3-7 kills

Can you post a screenshot of such battles?

I simply do not see gepards doing anything like that, so i am just curious

[AlanHR]

@Pangolin_Fan

The only two plausible ways that people like AlanHR or the chinese name guy can say that getting 5+ kills is uncommon in Gepard, is if they either have never played 8.3, or are just so egregiously biased towards Germany that they can’t even possibly consider the idea that a German vehicle is OP.

And again rich stuff coming from a guy that doesn’t even have Gepard. And yes its very uncomon for Gepard to have 5+ kills. “Just trust me bro” doesn’t work here. Either you can prove what you claim or its just hearsay.

Also claiming Gepard is OP is just trolling.

[Bocchi_1_1]

Positioning: If they can’t see me, I can’t see them. If they can’t shoot me- I can’t shoot them. Trees will block their view (mostly, since a lot of high BR planes have thermals and will see even a single pixel of heat through any forest I can hide in), and hard cover means I cannot fire missiles at them, since, you know… My missiles will just hit the hard cover. That doesn’t take into account them dropping F&F munitions from directly above me and changing direction, which means I’m basically right in the open for the bomb while they are now hidden behind the hard cover.

Radar: a single blip on their RWR will let them know I’m there and the general direction of my position. And, again, they often get high zoom targeting pods with thermals, and while I have to visually scan the entire sky from treetop level up to 12km or so, they only have to look at few popular spots since not many locations provide cover for SPAA from getting snipes across the map by enemy tanks

Deployment: Yes, I can move. Yes, I can deploy smoke. Doing both kinda defeats the purpose of either, since moving out of smoke means I basically just popped a giant flare that says “I am here” while losing the cover the smoke provided. A moving target is also much less likely to be mistaken for a destroyed vehicle, and many SPAA, especially SACLOS ones, cannot fire back while on the move

Firing: I’m gonna be dead serious, this one genuinely sounds like sarcasm. “only 10km away” must be a joke because for many SPAA that’s genuinely the max range of their missiles in a straight line, not accounting for any course corrections, all while giving the enemy almost an eternity to spot the line of white smoke moving in their direction, both warning them of the missile and showing them your exact location. If they have F&F weapons they can just lock onto you, fire, and start flying the other direction, and if they don’t… they can just start flying the other direction, both of which result in you having to perform miracles to guide the missile at such range since missiles start overcorrecting by a lot at such ranges and it feels like trying to point towards something with a wet noodle.

The only part that sounds serious is the “it’s a hit” part, since you’re might just barely get the missile into fuzing distance and will just get his wing yellow with a nice “hit” appearing on your screen.

And all that is if we only consider a scenario with just one aircraft in the air, without any planes coming in from other directions or helicopters just barely poking out from behind mountains

[Maldrokk]

@Busheedoh

And if you’re lucky, you might have smoke grenades to confuse the plane hunting you.

The plane seeing clouds of smoke without a friendly tag in it

[TenPoundsOfSalt]

@Bocchi_1_1

If they have F&F weapons they can just lock onto you, fire, and start flying the other direction

Not gonna lie, when I run the Mirage 2000 I can do it using a GBU, F&F are nice for the simultaneous strike capability, but they are not needed to utterly bully any SPAA that isn’t the Pantsir.
And even the Pantsir is just going to end up in a stalemate at best where we won’t kill each other, but I’ll be killing his team while he watches…