How player skill with SPAA effects the CAS problem

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

They’re still teammates, and they are there… Stop moaning and making excuses and avoidances.

thanks for informing me about this, i wasnt aware until now.
i am keen to begin using my teammates, as i havent done so far.

@Cookies_Juicebox

So there is nothing changing your mind then?

a valid argument would definitely change my mind, im open to opinions from all players, ground and CAS alike

@Cookies_Juicebox

only look at it as 1 vs 1, tank vs CAS with no presence of any team or SPAA

yes, because thats exactly how the gameplay is. its literally how games play out, you rely on a SPAA teammate and they dont save you, or usually they dont exist to begin with.

@Cookies_Juicebox

SPAA will always effect the CAS problem, if you don’t believe it then GL.

i never said SPAA doesnt affect the CAS problem

@FlyingDoctor

Strawman to argue more… How pathetic

its not a strawman, its a response to a common argument that supporters of CAS use, which is “GRB was made for mixed combat, which means CAS is an integral part of balance”.
thats why saying “maus could be at 1.0, because CAS balances it out” makes sense (or doesnt make sense, because the argument is bad)

[FlyingDoctor]

@gangsterism

thanks for informing me about this, i wasnt aware until now.
i am keen to begin using my teammates, as i havent done so far.

And this is where the context of that screenshot you put up is considering I was offering to squad with you…

But yea, you didn’t retract it genuinely.

[БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С]

@ULQ_LOVER

So Maus to 1.0 right?

According to this logic, the Maus will have to be made expensive like cas planes , but the cas planes themselves will have to be made 70sp like spaa. It actually sounds pretty funny, it would be a good idea for an event.

[ULQ_LOVER]

We could remove B.R. And just make it about SP costs with all vehicles

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

And this is where the context of that screenshot you put up is considering I was offering to squad with you…

this is where what?

[RunaDacino]

We have this for Naval EC!

It works amazingly!

@Der Zerkquetscher

I had a quick thought coming to my mind cosidering the 4th point you made, which is what i have seen numerous times over the last few weekends. Lots of people (sometimes about 50% of a team) join but apparently have no battleships in their lineups so, even if they do well in their destroyers they have no means of using the sp they earned and thus seriously hampering their team. I am glad that theres lots of people wanting to play ec, but it would be cool if they wouldnt be stuck with facing enemy ships they can do nothing against in the later stages of the game (but still continue to feed more sp to them so they can infinitely respawn and just snowball out of control completely suffocating the other team of sp) and because of this:

Why not make certain areas of the map only accessible for destroyers. Either mark them as red zones (not my preferred option) for battleships an cruisers (lets say above 5.3 or something) or:
Create large coastal and river areas (similar to coastal battles) which are too flat for battleships with way more draft to enter so people can chose to play there in dd vs dd lineups, but if they want they can still mess with the big boys. The maps would be big enough (though they mostly are histroical so idk how this could be implemented on existing maps)

Wait, nevermind.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Cookies_Juicebox

Doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a team based game.

Only thing team based in this game is the fact you’re put in the match with dozen of randoms that might or might not be willing to help. Or they literally can’t even if they want to because they don’t have the tools to do so and what’s worse, the game didn’t make sure they have those tools before queuing up.

[Sytryse]

Did your make your answer clear because I don’t know what you are talking about? If cookie want to grind USSR tech for the pantsir is his choice.

[FlyingDoctor]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[LiteralStone-psn]

Yeah if you get a chance to click. These maps are far too small for high tier and cas shows up way too early.

[gangsterism]

@FlyingDoctor

Shows you can’t actually understand what you were arguing about earlier.

i didnt understand what my sarcastic remark has to do with you offering to team up.
just so that you understand, i did actually know that i have teammates ingame beforehand, you werent the first one to inform me about that. what i wrote was a joke.
it has nothing to do with the context of the screenshot i sent so long ago.

@FlyingDoctor

making out people aren’t able to comment due to their stats

you dont play top tier, what made you think you can discuss a top tier issue?
to be fair, i dont just disregard what you say only because of that. if you had something sensible to suggest, i would consider it like any other suggestion. the issue is that what you suggest is very obviously nonsense, but you keep defending it despite being shown that what you say doesnt hold up.

and before you spam nonsense again, this is a top tier thread and CAS discussions are usually about top tier. if you ever referred to low tier CAS, you didnt specify.

i dont argue with you only for fun, i just want to debunk your points so that you dont manipulate other people into thinking youre right.
albeit it would take anyone literally a single game to refresh their memory on why youre wrong, becuse they would have a bomb on their head in no time.
(and before you spam further nonsense - yes, there were teammates with SPAA)

[Cookies_Juicebox]

Thanks. My main reason is because gangsterism says SPAA doesn’t solve CAS problems in top tier. I want to see why. I main Japan and right now they don’t have a working top tier SAM so my only options is USSR since I already have premium tank to rush grind it. He also uses the Pantsir-S1 & 2S6 a lot more than the others.

@gangsterism

@Cookies_Juicebox

SPAA will always effect the CAS problem, if you don’t believe it then GL.

i never said SPAA doesnt affect the CAS problem

@gangsterism

SPAA doesnt solve CAS bump

Mean the same thing, just said differently. Doesn’t solve it, doesn’t affect it, doesn’t work etc…

Best to see for myself if this is true or not after maybe 50+ matches once I obtain them.

[gangsterism]

@Cookies_Juicebox

Thanks. My main reason is because gangsterism says SPAA doesn’t solve CAS problems in top tier. I want to see why.

i listed reasons many times:

• teammates dont play SPAA
• teammates arent good at SPAA
• SPAA is too underpowered to save itself or teammates
• it simply isnt available 100% of the time regardless
• part of the problem is that tanks cant defend themselves and have to rely on SPAA, and can only spawn SPAA after death

@Cookies_Juicebox

Mean the same thing, just said differently. Doesn’t solve it, doesn’t affect it, doesn’t work etc…

no it does not mean the same thing.
not solving != not affecting

@Cookies_Juicebox

Best to see for myself if this is true or not after maybe 50+ matches once I obtain them.

couldve been better to do this before arguing on the forum

[MotorolaCRO]

I hope someone makes a thread about:
How player skill with CAS affects (downplays) the CAS problem.

[ULQ_LOVER]

I hope that in every topic regarding ground/air balance we will have a comment like:

“Your team could use a “X” vehicle that can deal with it so there is no point in changing its B.R.!”

Because as I said many times and I will always repeat, if You use “team” argument in one situation then in others it also applies.

People don’t have control over what players are going to be in their team, there is no SBMM (that could also solve many problems, but same people that use “team” argument are against SBMM), there is no “lobby” to choose from.

[MotorolaCRO]

@ULQ_LOVER

“Your team could use a “X” vehicle that can deal with it so there is no point in changing its B.R.!”

True.
We could have a Maus at 1.0 and let it cost 500 SP to spawn. When players complain about that crutch one could just say: “your team should just spawn a plane and bomb it bro”.

@ULQ_LOVER

but same people that use “team” argument are against SBMM

How convenient is that.
Team argument is utterly nonsensical until we get SBMM or at least forced roles that have to be filled.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@MotorolaCRO

We could have a Maus at 1.0 and let it cost 500 SP to spawn. When players complain about that crutch one could just say: “your team should just spawn a plane and bomb it bro”.

Total reasonable cas hater thought process.

@MotorolaCRO

How convenient is that.
Team argument is utterly nonsensical until we get SBMM or at least forced roles that have to be filled.

SBMM just makes every game worse and will luckely never come to WT.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Ghost of TelAviv

Total reasonable cas hater thought process.

That’s exactly what’s happening with CAS now.

@Ghost of TelAviv

SBMM just makes every game worse and will luckely never come to WT.

SBMM makes all the games better.
Competitive PvP games simply cannot be called that without SBMM.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@MotorolaCRO

SBMM makes all the games better.

Some people are just scared of having to face players on same or better skill lvl.

It is not that with that in place, balancing ground units and maps would be easier

Not to mention SPAA players and air ones would be on similar skill lvl meaning we would be able to determine that balance between them

[RunaDacino]

Legit, the only valid argument I can see is smurfs, certain kinds of matchmaker abuse (abandoning) or boosting.
T90Official is experimenting with ways to get around these issues for his latest AOE2 project and it seems promising.

But instead the standard argument is “I need to play at high effort :(”

Which ignores the fact that if you are able to play brain-off, that means the enemy team is dealing with “I need to play at high effort.”

SBMM ensures both teams have to put in equal effort.