Ye, I agree with you. Only time i struggle with CAS is 12.0 BR when they fly so fast and you are some maps either bottled to spawn or get shot by enemy tanks in open. Germany and Russiea do have very potent AA’s across br’s and it helps alot too.
Yes, perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
I killed 3 of them, but still skill issue for still being overrun by their OP spam. Yes.
3 deaths out of 3… to C*S, while doing nothing but to try to fight them off and partially succeeding to no avail still, even spawning backup SAMs.
This is outrageous. The match stopped being a “ground battle” to me and turned into a “C*S vs SPAA battle”; and even though I took down 3 of them, they just keep coming over and over.
And that’s just my killfeed. In total, our team had taken down TEN helicopters and aircraft- and it was STILL NOT ENOUGH. By the time the match ended, there were STILL some of them flying. The enemy C*S alone killed more than half the spawns of my team.
There IS a problem here that has already even been acknowledged by the developers, who stated to be working on more capable SPAAs to solve this situation.
The notion that “you just have to leave the spawn” is even more hilarious when C*S is already pre-emptively bombing it and your only and best chance to take it down is to do so while your spawnprotection lasts, which disappears sooner if you move by the way- and which also exposes you to enemy tanks. No, this is not a “sKiLl IsSuE”. This is a real problem.
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That’s why people one death leave, why bother respawn just to become a target practice for CAS degenerates right? Ground battle my ass
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As you can see, they kill me every time barely after my spawn protection is gone.
I spawn TOR-M1 at 6:00; take down an enemy at 6:06… and am destroyed at 6:23. RIGHT after the spawn protection is gone.
Later, again; I spawn TOR-M1 backup at 6:40, take down an enemy at 6:46… and am destroyed at 6:56; again, RIGHT after the spawn protection is gone.
And they have the BALLS to say that “we just need to move out of the spawn”. When, exactly, when missiles and bombs are falling into the spawn pre-emptively the moment an SPAA spawns?
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Thing is, who was on spawn in the first instance who was firing MGs as they left, or SPAA mindlessly trying to strike when they spawn…
That is the most common reason you can notice spawn, and why things drop there.
Many don’t wait until they’re clear of the spawn and just fire.
Whilst you didn’t fire it doesn’t mean that no-one else did.
People strike spawns because they’re large, open areas with a high probability of targets who aren’t in cover, as well as the most likely spot for SPAA to be hiding. Outside of a cap circle that’s actively being capped, there is no other area of the map with better odds of finding targets to strike. CAS aircraft are actively incentivised to strike targets in that area first, since it’s generally got the best odds and lets them potentially surprise SPAA before they’re recognized.
It has absolutely nothing to do with people giving away their positions by firing off into space, since spawn locations are completely static every match, not to mention visible on the map.
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Spawn protection though makes you waste your loadout, so you’re better off to search for a better bunched set of targets…
It does have a lot to do with someone firing because that tells me you’re moving out of spawn, and you are vulnerable.
And the amount of people that complain they get bombed on spawn when they’ve made their way out of it is common.
And that’s only a noob thing to do, because the second you open up, your team will be wearing what you’ve attracted.
And that’s incorrect, as map knowledge plays a hand, knowing where the snipers sit and where chokepoints are.
Others in here would tell you that no matter where you are, you’ll get got.
I appreciate that you actually tried it, but I want to stress something:
I never claimed it isn’t a problem.
I will quote the disclaimer at the start of the thread that I feel a LOT of people have ignored.
“I understand that this topic is rather controversial (and rightfully so!) So I remind you all to try to stay on topic with the main point of this thread! That being the player aspect of this issue which I wish to bring forth to discussion with this thread! I would also like to remind you all to stay civil, and read what I have to say before you reply. Thank you, and I hope this thread opens healthy discussion regarding the topic!”
In my opinion, there is an issue. A very big one.
I have addressed these concerns so many times before, you can go read these now.
- The ground battle CAS issue, and how people not knowing how to play SPAA adds onto it, by a lot! - #70 by Busheedoh
- The ground battle CAS issue, and how people not knowing how to play SPAA adds onto it, by a lot! - #71 by Busheedoh
I’m frankly a bit tired of seeing people come in here and always give the same retorts that I have already debunked a million times. So let me summarise it very simply for everyone:
CAS IS AN ISSUE! THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HOW YOU, AS THE PLAYER, CAN AFFECT IT BY PLAYING SPAA BETTER!
I know CAS is an issue. That’s just a fact. They should triple the spawn costs for top tier CAS to the point where if you use CAS you prevent yourself from getting a nuke in all likelyhood. But I want to raise awareness regarding how people not knowing how to SPAA compounds that issue, and I want to offer at least something akin to a solution in regards to it.
Should I rewrite the OP slightly? Probably. But I just want you to know that I have never claimed the CAS is not a problem. It is. Should there be a ground only mode? Absolutely! I play ground sim to get that fix myself, because 90% of people don’t know how to use planes in that mode. AA is like VERY strong in that game-mode because of reduced visibility (especially before targeting pods are a thing)
So, yeah. Sorry if this feels like bit of a lash out, but I’m just a bit tired of people misconstruing my point.
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Doesn’t matter how good someone plays SPAA, CAS is still stronger right now and next update makes it even stronger.
Most of times AA radars can’t detect plane right front of it, or can’t lock helicopter 2 km away and I’m talking about top AAs. And all planes have to do to avoid AA missiles is slightly turn, or go down.
That’s reason why players leave after 1 death mostly, it was high tier thing, but last time i noticed more and more people leaving at low tiers too. Beginning of 6.3 6.7 at least 5-6 players leaving with 1 death and it’s because of CAS.
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Idk what you mean by next update. The Eurofighter if anything is the most OP CAS plane currently in the game. Having used it myself in ground, you can practically go head on with every single missile SPAA and dodge their munitions just by doing barrel rolls for days because of that thing’s flight performance.
I don’t see what addition in the next update will make it “more broken” honestly.
My most used AA btw, is the OTOMATIC aka the “worst AA in the game”
If you had read most of the stuff I’ve said in this thread, like the replies I linked in that post, you’d find that I think that yes, in most cases if both players (SPAA and CAS) are of equal skill, the CAS player will win.
I just think that most CAS players are even more dumb that SPAA players, with how they mostly fly in a straight line. (Trust me, I know that, because the only way the OTOMATIC gets kills is by killing people in a straight line! Yet, I have so many kills, I wonder why that is?)
I honestly personally prefer the 2S6 over the Pantsir-S1 because of the mobility… I still wish that Russia had the Tor-M1 in the tree instead.
Anyway. I think you have a loser mentality “if it doesn’t matter” – the fact is currently, it’s not likely that Gaijin will do much about it. So, that leaves the responsobility of doing something to the player.
What can you do? Play AA better. If you don’t want to? Then go play ground simulator battles. If that isn’t enough? I don’t know, go write a suggestion post on the forum, or go make a video essay on why Gaijin is a corporation that preys on people with ragebait. You have so many options, yet you’d rather not take any of them – instead you’d rather complain in the thread of a person who chose to do something about it.
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Doing something is really hard when you’re working with underpowered vehicles. You’re useful as much as your opponent in CAS wants you to be.
Yes, just play AA better and along the way perform some voodoo magic in order for your IR SAM to reach an enemy helicopter.
My issue when it comes to AA is sometimes they just dont have the range. There is only 1 vehicle that i believe can reach out to 18km but thats not even good enough. When i play top tier i end up in my Nato AA and see planes like the Su34 for example shooting its ATGM as soon as it spawns then turns back to land and rearm. Majority of the time i dont even notice it nor can do anything to stop it. I feel like we need more long range anti air just to combat these long range anti ground missiles that are being added into the game. Supposedly Gaijin is gonna be adding alot more AA this year but id like a dedicated AA update and add like 10 AA at once.
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I like to play CAS, but i like to play SPAA too
My biggest concern is, the SPAA dominance at 7.7-10.3. SPAAs is the most effective vehicles at this BR range. Not just in air, but in ground. Why need a stabilizer for an SPAA? ZA-35, Gepard derivatives, AMX DCA, ITPSV are OP. When you are not in a soviet/chinese tank, you are dead. Nothing you can do.
And off course you dont have chance to CAS, becouse these are the most meta vehicles.
Remove the AP shells from this staff…
What about the other options I outlined? Countering helicopters is something else and I admit, IR missiles struggle because of how heat profiles are modeled for helicopters.
It’s true, and it sucks. Multi-trailer vehicle AA will hopefully fix this. But now we are stuck with this. They should honestly fix the fact that missiles are SACLOS to begin with, radar missiles should actually work on a radar lock to guide them…
Gun AA being used as TDs is a concern for another topic imo. They also skew statistics in the eyes of Gaijin.
I’d also argue that you’re wrong. SPAA is weakest in that range, especially in the 8.7 to 9.7 range where certain planes get precision munitions at way too low of a BR. (Biggest example is the Skyhawk honestly…)
We can agree that CAS is an issue, but teaching people how to play AA would only mitigate that issue slightly, as the skill of AA players isn’t the main issue of why CAS is strong.
Having people get CAS’d is inherently unfair and fun for the one side only, so people will always complain about that.
We can also agree on the tank-only part.
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Again, never said it was. I fully agree. But people knowing how to counter planes does have an impact, to claim otherwise is silly.
Again, I agree, I state so in a size 6 text colored yellow at the start of my OP. Ultimately as a tank, there is little you can do. That’s Gaijin’s fault.strong text
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i completle agree, even in soviet vehicles SPAAs are your death, if they dont kill you imeadiatly they disable every possiblity to fight back and because you dont can decide what you are repairing there is only a low chance of survival. I mean i got killed by a gepard in my object 279 threw the upper frontplate… I think spaa should loose the capability to fight that good against tanks, the reward for fighting tanks should be very low → only a few SL, RP, SP on the otherhand higher reward for fighting planes and mybe a reward after the battle for keeping the air space clean
It’s just a small remedy that quickly disappears when you go up against a semi competent player. This makes AA very unrewarding to play.
Yes, it’s their fault which is further amplified by not giving people a way around that inherent disadvantage.
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