What about the other options I outlined? Countering helicopters is something else and I admit, IR missiles struggle because of how heat profiles are modeled for helicopters.
It’s true, and it sucks. Multi-trailer vehicle AA will hopefully fix this. But now we are stuck with this. They should honestly fix the fact that missiles are SACLOS to begin with, radar missiles should actually work on a radar lock to guide them…
Gun AA being used as TDs is a concern for another topic imo. They also skew statistics in the eyes of Gaijin.
I’d also argue that you’re wrong. SPAA is weakest in that range, especially in the 8.7 to 9.7 range where certain planes get precision munitions at way too low of a BR. (Biggest example is the Skyhawk honestly…)
We can agree that CAS is an issue, but teaching people how to play AA would only mitigate that issue slightly, as the skill of AA players isn’t the main issue of why CAS is strong.
Having people get CAS’d is inherently unfair and fun for the one side only, so people will always complain about that.
We can also agree on the tank-only part.
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Again, never said it was. I fully agree. But people knowing how to counter planes does have an impact, to claim otherwise is silly.
Again, I agree, I state so in a size 6 text colored yellow at the start of my OP. Ultimately as a tank, there is little you can do. That’s Gaijin’s fault.strong text
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i completle agree, even in soviet vehicles SPAAs are your death, if they dont kill you imeadiatly they disable every possiblity to fight back and because you dont can decide what you are repairing there is only a low chance of survival. I mean i got killed by a gepard in my object 279 threw the upper frontplate… I think spaa should loose the capability to fight that good against tanks, the reward for fighting tanks should be very low → only a few SL, RP, SP on the otherhand higher reward for fighting planes and mybe a reward after the battle for keeping the air space clean
It’s just a small remedy that quickly disappears when you go up against a semi competent player. This makes AA very unrewarding to play.
Yes, it’s their fault which is further amplified by not giving people a way around that inherent disadvantage.
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Tbh this is hard to balance. On one hand, SPAA should never be used in that way. but because this is War Thunder — people will…
Idk. The cheap spawn cost of AA contributes to this. But I also do think AA shoudln’t be completely defenseless if your team is getting absolutely hammered.
Honestly, I’m confused why Gaijin doesn’t implement a SP increase system for taking the Anti-Tank belts with AA — and in turn let people run full AT belts both for against tanks, but also to give gun AA the opportunity to actually use the higher velocity of said ammunition types against faster moving targets.
Can you imagine a Gepard using full APDS on planes? I feel the accuracy could increase by at least 60% if it was capable of doing that.
Making players able to use full high velocity belts with a SP increase would make most sense. The code is already there, used on planes — quite literally to the letter considering you can take different belts with planes.
Honestly, might write a suggestion about this.
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yes i agree about SPAA shouldnt be defencless against tanks and the idear with a increased cost for spwaning with AP is also good but i think i would also cut the reward for fighting tanks so spaa isnt anymore the way to get a nuke in 1min and it doesnt help your progress to shredd tanks (maybe enemy tanks in the own spawnarea or who are shooting in the spawn giving still full XP and SP so defent your self at a point of no return brings money but hunting tanks not )
There we go. Yeah, this I agree with fully. But as I’ve tried to say — most CAS players arent that great either, luckily.
In my experience, against a skilled CAS player, it just becomes a game of hiding behind cover. If you can intercept munitions, thats great, but you actually kind of just end up in a stalemate — especially if you have solid cover.
Stalemate is usually broken by the CAS player coming in with a risky run, or you turning off your radar and luring the CAS in with a false sense of security. Lot of players do forget where you are, especially if you hide and theyre too fixated on killing other targets. But if they’re going for you in particular? Stalemate.
And yeah, it sucks. LWS helps, and the air alert can help too if your team is actively doing it. Outside of that, you have no tools to engage them. Idk, a more skilled player could possibly tell if a light tank that just died on a cap rush is probably gonna spawn a plane, but even then thats a bit on and off.
If you do know there is CAS up, most you can do is just hide behind solid cover. Even then, more heavy ordanance counteracts that as well. I don’t know, that’s all I could think of and it really just comes down to staying aware and assessing if you should be in the open or not (which is what you should be doing to begin with…)
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I’ll cut in here and say that SPAA getting nukes in a minute is rare. Yes, there are cases, but equally I can recall the times where I absolutely destroyed that LAV or ZA who decided the best course of action is to hold W straight at me.
Reducing rewards is something I think could be done? In turn I think rewards for killing planes should be increased, so players have a incentive to do their job.
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Problem with this is that you have vehicles with much stronger stock belts than others. SIDAM is a perfect example, as it’s stock belt has like 7mm of penetration while Gepard has 68mm.
You don’t need to be that great to sling ordnance outside the range of AA, it’s basic game knowledge.
There’s nothing risky in launching your ordnance 8km+ away while you know your opponents have a maximum effective range of 4-5km.
LWS is mostly useless in higher tier as CAS has transitioned from using laser guided weaponry.
Even if they use laser guidance, there’s a way to bypass LWS until the last few seconds before impact, practically making you unable to react.
i honestly would love that. i don’t mind the mouse guided stuff sometimes but i would love if they actually did use radar properly like they do with air to air missiles. maybe one day
I have now edited the OP because of how much people have misconstrued my points. Any further “discussion” of that sort will simply be flagged. And by that I mean the unproductive sort.
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“Make SPAA even less rewarding, unfun, and pointless!”.
I love how in this thread CAS mains are living in some parallel world where SPAA is somewhat too dominant and strong.
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Love the thread! Didn’t know someone made this.
My issue with players is them using it incorrectly… try shooting at CAS from long distance, waste ammo, alert CAS they there shooting, get wrecked and say that SPAA are useless or are not effective at all when they didn’t even try to play it correctly or took the time to learn and predict trajectories or proper strategies. Another is them finding the SPAA gameplay boring which is understandable, but there are also vehicles out there that are not SPAAs and can deal with CAS using PF/HV-VT rounds or simple IFVs with autocannons.
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What are the nerfs that’s needed?
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Your opinions would have a lot more credence if you could manage a positive KD against aircraft in even a single SPAA.
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A class based around a gameplay with less action doesn’t mean it’s OP.
If i pull that reasoning to its limits, let’s imagine you can play supply trucks in game : they would just require driving while mostly away from the battlefield, which you consider “braindead”. Would they be OP ? i’ll let you answer that yourself.
8.7 to 9.7 is basically the only place where CAS is somewhat balanced (and 1.0-2.0 too i would argue)
in between 2.0 and 8.7, CAS is quite strong, but not completely broken as you still need time to go to the battlefield, you can get shot down on the way and you have to aim your bomb drops
over 9.0 it just gets worse and worse, from mavericks to GBUs to AS-30Ls, ending with AASMs and the disgusting KH38
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You better tell me how to counter the KH-38MT on ADATS? Hide behind houses with the radar turned off while your team is being destroyed? Is this the role of SPAA?
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