It would be a understatement to say that CAS is OP, For barely doing anything you can get in a plane with bombs and destroy a bunch of tanks, the tanks not being able to do anything about it.
Most CAS lovers just say to “Spawn SPAA” or “Spawn in a Fighter” But those have already been proven to have some flaws, so I’m looking for other solutions if there even is some, to counter CAS.
What BR?
The answer changes radically between talking about a Hurricane gun strafing or a Stuka diving bombing all the way up to a Su-34 spamming of KH-38s
spawned in an F-15 to do some CAS work, 3 Pantsir’s and a Ef-2000 managed to politely tell me not today.
What do you want to hear, then? Let’s make tanks take off, fight CAS, land safely and continue fighting on the ground?
SPAA and CAP are the only CAS counters. Use them, or keep playing the victim. Your choice…
that would be awesome tho
Best solution is to ask for a tank only mode.
Second best solution is to actually spawn aircraft of your own, as AAs definitely won’t satisfy your needs. I’m telling you this as an anti-CAS oriented player.
I actually like playing SPAA, the only problem is that you don’t get a lot of XP once you do destroy a plane so there isn’t point in using it if I want to grind a tech tree
This is definetly one of the larger issues imo in terms of SPAA/CAP.
I’ll preface this by saying I have no issue with CAS being part of GRB or GSB. But there are balancing issues. But beyond balance issues (mostly caused by the lack of available/decent SPAA) there is also the lack of reward if there is no trade.
This is why I quite like the Stormer HVM because if there is no trade. I can support my team by scouting. But i’ve had matches before where I’ve circled the battlefield in a Sea Harrier, waiting for something, anything to spawn in for me to hunt and nothing, not a single contact (i’ve also had matches where 3 enemy CAS spawn in and i’ve killed all 3 before they’ve even gotten a shot off, so it swings about at times)
But yeah, some form of better reward for providing CAP or SPAA cover would be good. For SPAA, I’ve always thought that scouting should just be standard and at higher BRs, perhaps drones should be standard as well.
As said above…this is “by design”. This is a team game where your team is supposed to protect you while you fight in tanks…either by SPAA or fighters. Most players (your team and the enemy) will be fighting in tanks and the VAST MAJORITY of deaths will be by ground vehicle fire.
Devs repeat frequently that their view of the game is combined arms. You look for “tank only” to find one of the discussions on the subject. BTW my view on this is that i would like to have a (regular) Tank Only event to see how it goes…
HOWEVER…there are issues with CAS, some aircraft may be too strong or too low BR…it can surely be improved…
I also get killed by planes when things were going well…i understand the point…just dont think useful to overdo it…
No, there are no mere “issues” with CAS, it’s a complete and utter turd show.
And that’s not merely at Top Tier, but also at lower tiers, where you scout an enemy, participate in taking a point and you spawn a strike aircraft with rockets and bombs…
The only benefit lower tiers have is that the plane weapons don’t outrange the SPAA weapons.
But still, you’re not even two minutes into a round and you already have planes bombing you.
As soon as helicopters join the game you get the issue that your gun SPAA are outranged and your Missile SPAA with IR missiles won’t lock onto targets more than 2km away.
And then top tier, where CAS has also Fire & Forget missiles that can be launched from way outside the effective range of SPAAs…yay!
So combined arms my rear end, this has become Air RB with player driven targets.
Honestly i dont play RB anymore…but can you check one of your matches and see what killed most tanks? Last time i checked it would be close to 80% by ground fire (at mid/low BR)…did it change?
I know numbers can get in the way of opinions…but i assume these are actually used for decision making…
You are supposed to just spawn a tank to be a target and RP piniata
Just need pantsir equivlants against kh38
I have had plenty of games where the majority of kills was from CAS and not only in quantity of kills, but also game/round deciding kills.
If your team has 2 Capture points and then takes a slight defensive stance and you have a Rafale, or EF or F-15 or one of the countless other planes with strike capability swoop in from over 15km away and kill your forward line, then that is round deciding, in a GROUND match.
The balance is not just a little off, it is completely off.
Add to it that your SPAA missiles, like the VT-1, are not capable to maneuver at distances over 6km in a meaningful way.
So if you have, say a SU-3x come at you from 10+km away and launch their KH-38 or some GBU-39 or some AGM then you have no chance to kill the strike aircraft, because they will maneuver out slightly and your missile overcorrects and/or won’t pull the maneuvers to hit a plane.
Instead, you’re busy trying to lock on to some of that ammo that was shot to see if you can intercept that. Which btw, might work fine for things like the ADATS, ITO or Pantsir, but won’t work with the FlaRakRad due to the limits in missiles and the longer reload.
And to make things worse, this is a long known problem, a problem that has caused the discussion on the Tank Only mode and a lot of posts on this forum and the old one as well. So the balance has been off for quite a while, yet Gaijin keeps adding more and more capable CAS platforms and new guided ammunitions to keep moving the needle in favor of CAS.
As a result, GRB players (like me) feel like being the fish in the barrel and CAS is no longer a shotgun, but a stick of Dynamite that blows the fish out of the water and the barrel apart.
The way CAS performs at the moment is a why people stop playing the game.
Air RB is super boring, Naval is boring and only Ground RB offers some tactical depth and some momentum to the matches. The few matches where CAS is very limited (yes, that also happens now and then) are actually fun. You still have people that camp eventually and it is more cumbersome to get rid of them, but at least it is a fair fight.
Kh-38 outranges pantsir,but then so do any BLUFOR CAS with LJDAMs and mavs. The only counter to CAS on toptier is another plane.
This is a too used card…i don’t want to be rude, but almost everyone complaining in forum says that their specific gripe is making people leave the game. It may actually be true on some cases, but hard to verify…
I suggest you back up your claim with real data…if you can prove (screenshot or detailed data verifiable by replay) that a specific engagement had most kills due to CAS you may be closer to proving your point. And it allows to see where (the BR) and how (the weapons) this happens…
Where i play (mid BR and AB), CAS is an issue but not decisive…just annoying as hell when you are doing well and get bombed :).
Overall depends on the BR but when it comes to top tier, i’d say you’d need to spawn in your own plane to really counter it
In terms of SPAAs, Pantsir is probably the most efficient (well, more like only) option since it can actually reach the aircrafts that just launches bombs and missiles past 12km
Other SPAAs are mainly going to be useful against helis and shooting down incoming missiles/bombs
but you’d probably have to shoot down 2-4 of them from a single aircraft so chances are you’re screwed unless there’s plenty of cover or distance
Open field maps? just pray
What’s the point of providing data on that?
Gaijin acknowledged the overperformance of CAS in the interview they published with the game director (?) where they also revealed that they will start implementing multi-vehicle SPAA.
Yet, there is no pause in adding more CAS because someone has to keep to their roadmap and balance be damned.
Also, I’m sure many have already seeen in, but TEC did an analysis on the CAS issue a while back:
I know he isn’t everyones favorite, but this analysis is absolutely spot on for 90% of the Top Tier matches.
So to make a long story short, I can collect data all day long and fill Excel sheets and prove to you that the number of kills per round by CAS exceeds 35+%.
What would be the consequence of that analysis?
Where is the proper feedback form that Gaijin runs to improve their game based on player feedback?
Where is the quarterly player survey that Gaijin uses to collect in depth feedback on the game and how they can improve.
There is NOTHING that Gaijin listens to, except when you review bomb on Steam and their wallet.
And that is the reason why players quit, not because they get bombed in game, but because they get bombed every round, again and again and again, while in an uptier with a tank they still need to spade and team mates that run a premium vehicle and will leave after one death.
And nothing the players say or provide as constructive feedback penetrates the deaf ears of Gaijin.
