Since my suggestion post hasn’t been approved for who knows why, I’m writing here.
Picture to start of with:
Will removing ‘ambush’ spots, will making maps smaller fix things such as this? No. Everything all comes down to flawed game mode, and you won’t fix a problem that exists in more ways than one, when only focusing on a single issue. (I’m not saying the map design doesn’t extrapolate the issue, quite the opposite, I think map redesign is needed, but they’re going super wrong direction with this, and I’m not even going to bother to talk about it because obviously majority of playerbase disagrees with me)
Only one spawn location being available . Who thought that this was good idea? It takes away a chance for team to fight back after a string of bad luck. Anyways, here are my thoughts on how to improve spawn things, even if I think gamemode itself is the problem.
Always give an option to spawn in more than one location.
Dynamic spawns, or locations. So each game, randomize the spawn locations, based on distance to the first point that teams get by default.
Stop showing enemies where you spawn locations are in that game. Make them guess, or make estimates. And holy fuck, please remove the warning message that you’re visible due to being close to enemy spawn, like what’s the reason for that anyways? It only helps spawn killing.
Make the maps a bit larger to make point 2 viable. Just a bit of bigger area to improve spawning location variance.
you know if you get spawnkill in general its only because youre team is a lot of noob or unlucky (I knwo whagt im talking about) but its true there is a problem in this, but we can’t have the invicibility permanentely at the spawn because some people will be push that things at cheating
What you’re showing isn’t the spawncamping that needs to be removed. What this is, is what happens when there’s a blowout. And there’s nothing Gaijin can do that’ll prevent that from happening. Nor would randomizing where players spawn resolve this. It’s hard enough for Gaijin to design maps around specific spawns that are in cover, now you want to have them plopped down in the middle of open fields, surrounded by enemies?
When one team completely collapses, of course the other team is going to push into spawn. That’s where the enemies are. But you’re presented with two options. Either use your spawn invincibility to get yourself a couple of kills before you inevitably die, or simply leave the game. A reminder that if the enemy team is visible on the minimap due to spawn protection, you can leave the game with no penalty.
The spawncamping that is being addressed is where a player is able to sneak into a position that has shots on the enemy spawn before the team has collapsed, allowing them to get free kills on unsuspecting players shortly after they spawn. There’s more that can be done here, but that’s up to Gaijin.
How do you write this long comment when missing my point? Spawn killing such as this is not the problem, I also spawn push because why not. The fact that there’s no way to come back from it, is the problem. Literally my whole point.
Also, spawn pushing would be wildly different if spawn locations would be dynamic, and also invisible to enemy team on the map.
Example number two. What’s the difference between these pictures?
Enemy tanks overwhelm first spawn position, but since there’s an option to spawn in second location, I manage to flank them and kill them. Except even in this scenario, spawn locations are both visible to enemy team, and too close to each other.
Which I am against aswell. So I also don’t want more added to allow brain dead lemming gameplay.
We know what ground modes are, they have player controlled air and ground. Of course you should, I made the effort and am rewarded for it (SL gains for air on air is a bit too good).
SPAA and CAP are part of the mode. Why do people think they should avoid a large part of the mode? Point is that I did exactly that, rather than moan others learnt the mode early on (AB first so never needed until I switched to RB; I made the effort).
The point is it is VERY effective to stop enemy air. Choice is to each individual but if no one on a team can help then “thanks team” for not learning the game. It works… or do you deny that dropping bombs on those hanging around at spawn would delay said spawn campers?
I am very average player. In the middle of my grind towards top tier Germany, I decided to keep track of my grind. So take what I’m going to write with salt.
My average activity is 89%, average per game is 3002 RP gained, average time spent playing in the match is 11minutes, which is pure playtime if what Gaijin says is accurate.
According to my averages, for somebody to get to top tier tank, in this case let’s say Leopard 2A6 - They would need to play 505 games, which according to my personal experience, would amount. 89 hours. it doesn’t seem a lot at first glance, BUT here’s where things get interesting.
It’s impossible to beeline straight to top tier tank. You need to get specific amount of tanks in Ranks before being able to progress. Arbitrary thing.
You get more and more RP from higher BR tanks, so it’s easy to assume you would need a lot more games, like A LOT more games than calculations based mostly on RankV+ tanks.
Let’s make a big estimate because I’m too lazy to count, let’s say you need around 400 hours, at minimum to reach top tier and get a good lineup. That is for a single country.
And you WANT people to also grind Air at the same time? Just so they can play a ground mode?
Try doing that without Premium.
Top tier is a personal goal, not the games. Yes there is more effort to hit this Top Tier.
I did it, 6.7-7.3ish for every nation, spaded ground (apart from Israel) and most of the air.
Yes, it is a LOT of work. But hey, I am average and casual, never been in a Squad, I knew air was needed to stop enemy air so I invested time.
YES it is a lot of work and you can totally skip it. But skipping it gives you consequences (and the problem of a whole team skipping it then wondering why air became such a nightmare). And 0f course you do not need to spade every vehicle as I chose to.
And for most tiers you don’t need same BR planes (same bombs at lowest tier as there are by tier V or VI). Low tiers at least do not take that long. And of course it is an option when in the specific situation you show in the pictures. You can see I am lame at SPAA so personally air is usuallybmy best option if my team fails to provide.
The problem is your goals are not the only goals on the game. I personally have no reason to ever want or need to play the part of the game WT was not really made for (same foundation, maps, format, since BR 1.0).
It has taken me 6000+ hours, a fair few games (since I played AB air and ground, then RB ground, then AB naval, then RB air… now PvE Air because WT is currently more a habit than truly enjoying it), and since 2016ish, to reach nowhere near as high as yourself and many others. But of course that is every nation and I do have options in almost all lineups that are for CAS or anti-CAS (obviously not SPAA, my record on them is abysmal).
There’s no way to come back from it not just because you’re fish in a barrel, but also because you’re outnumbered severely. Depending on the tank (autoloaders obviously excel), you can score yourself mutliple kills while protected by spawn invincibility, but there’s no way to turn around a game that bad, and simply changing where the spawns are isn’t going to make a 12v1 any more feasible.
If you’re using your second example, you can either use the spawn invincibility to kill them, or simply exit the spawn in a way that lets you flank them. The eastern spawn has good terrain you can use, and you can exit to the east and flank them around the building.
Basic map design dictates that spawns should have decent all-around cover, have multiple paths out of them that prevent it being locked down by single players, and have enough cover and conealment to give the advantage to people defending in them. Not all spawns in game live up to this, but it’s a standard we should be pushing for. Tell me, how does randomizing where tanks spawn within an entire half of the map achieve this?
Sure, sometimes you’ll spawn somewhere convenient and get a good flank. Othertimes, you’ll spawn into someone’s firing line with no cover. Maybe you’ll spawn close to a point you need to press, or maybe it’ll put you as far from it as possible.
I also don’t get how you propose to have random spawns, yet tie them to specific conditions, and yet hide them from the enemy? Even if you randomize it to a specific location each game, it’s not going to take players long to determine where the enemy are pushing from. You’d have to move them periodically, which just further increases the chances for a bad spawn location.
Except that enemies can use the same thing that supposed to protect you, like you mentioned - concealment.
Like you’ve said, spawns are already randomized in specific locations. I only suggest to add more of these locations, and for that to work, extend the map further, to give potentially more good locations to add.
Doesn’t mean that it should be made easier to them. And removing warning that you’re visible to enemies would also help.
Even once being punished while spawn pushing is enough to swing back game to being balanced, and give a chance for team to fight back. Dynamic spawn locations would help with that. Or even an opportunity to choose locations instead of it being random.
The only time it’s like this is when your team is losing badly and I’m all about it. Spawn in something with a powerful gun and pop a few before invincibility tinder runs out.
Don’t make maps smaller. Make them bigger, ez way to avoid spawncamping since no one wants to go farther than the objectives are, unless they’re particularly persistent 💀
Actually, by common statements from the ODL crowd, and those that bail, as soon as they see the spawn overrun they’re quitting anyway…
So really, you have to take player negativity and hopelessness into account.
Of which there is much of that, it’s very hard to find people who will squad, and actually do things rather than being all upset and triggered about matches not going thier way.
