What would you do in case of the horton in this situation? F86A5 (8.7) vs Horton (7.7):
No replay because… EC is horrible for replays and it’s been months ago. I’ve very little flight hours in the sabre because of spawn costs and despite my mistakes, I feel it was a terribly unfair fight.
ASB might change things around somewhat (aiming//gunsights/cockpit visibility) but raw performance should still be comparable to ARB given the same flight models.
The Horton gained position advantage on me with fairly light damage (got some hits in with 50 cals earlier, doubt it’d affect flight performance that much given horton engines are off-centre), had altitude and dived on me and I could just… pitch up and away without too much stress.
Like, it’s a full 1.0 BR difference so it makes sense. With brackets, the only time a horton has to fight a sabre is 2 days out of however many (2 out of 8 I think?) (however it has to deal with a saggitario 2 which it has to face on 8.0 and 8.3 days, which is 4 out of 8).
(I’m really curious what horton cockpit looks like, but it’ll probably be a few weeks until I unlock it.)
@ 0:11 First of all I wouldn’t turn in front of an enemy plane like that. It achieves nothing tangible, and only enlarges your own profile to hit. I would at least point my wings towards your nose, and then jink up to dodge your attack, preferably after pulling a little negative G to have you lead away from the jink direction.
@ 3:03 seems like the enemy Horten is chasing you without enough speed. There is no reason for a Horten to chase a faster opponent that will not turn, as it will only result in an energy trap. There is also no reason to shoot from such long distances and giving away your own nose direction to opponents. The guns are slug shooting shotguns after all.
@ 4:28 bro gave up lol
It’s true, speed is king in the air after all.
That is very true. Rear visibility is very important for the kind of dodges I execute in ARB, and you can’t look through your own aircraft. It would require a new approach to be developed to force reliable overshots against faster opponents.
Surface damage harms Horten’s energy retention quite badly, both LER and MER, and harms acceleration. If the Horten is near an 8.0 with any kind of damage, the Horten should consider itself dead.
You can actually look at it right now, if you have an Nvidia GPU. Preview the Horten, then hit Alt+F2 to enter Ansel mode. Move the camera within the cockpit (hold ctrl for fine adjustment). It’ll be blurry, unfortunately, but you still get a rough overview!
Head position may be slightly different, but this looks about “right” looking at the crosshair. Yeah, it looks like it has a pretty bad rear visibility even if I offset some to the side. This probably contributes quite a bit to seeing hortens suffer the rare times I got the SL fly out my korean jets. In-game proper might still be better with the head movement keys, so still going to try and unlock it for a few custom a.i battles at least. It looks like a fun plane to fly for itself ( rudderless flying wing without SAS?)
It looks about comparable to the F6F-5’s visibility.
Spoiler
Given your replays/commentary and reply with its cockpit view making those maneuvers much harder, I do feel it might be justified (bad rear visibility while relying on fine maneuvers to force overshoots, damage model unable to handle minor damage around planes that in ARB are a full 1.0 uptier while in ASB are potential enemies 6 days out of 8) to either move the Horten down from 7.7 or decompress the planes around it. Right now, it always faces vampires (7.7), can regularly face La-200/La-7(8.0) , Saggitario 2(8.0), Mig 15(8.0) (4 days out of 8), rarely (2 days out of 8) F86A5 and Mig-15Bis(8.7). Planes at can rarely face the Ho229 are P51H (6.7), Spitfire 24 (6.7) (2 days out of 8).
Down at 7.3, it’d face yak9UT, Tempest Mk2, F7F, Ki84Hei, N1K2-Ja 2 days out of 8 and make the P15H and spitfire deal with it 4 days out of 8. (and probably some french/swedish/israeli things but I rarely see people flying planes from those trees outside of swedish bombers) - stuff it already can face in ARB. It would get 2 days out of 8 it doesn’t need to fight vampires and 4 days out of 8 it doesn’t need to fight the 8.0 list from above. It’d never need to fight sabres or mig15bises, but it would still face saggi 2 (4 days out of 8) and g.91 pre (2days out of 8).
I’m not sure how well it fares against the 6.3 props (plus that’s a BR bracket I flew the least both ARB/ASB). However, in ARB it does look like it faces most of them already there.
Using standard energy fighting tactics combined with the turn performance, it makes the Horten untouchable to any prop, unless very good team work is involved on the part of the props.
No prop can maintain speed while turning at 700 kmh, and no prop can maintain 10 m/s climb at 700 kmh, so it is easy to manipulate the energy state of any prop a Horten can face.
The most a prop can do against a Horten is climb steeper to stay safe. If baited into a dive, the energy difference turns into an energy trap in favour of the Horten.
I’m telling you what happens when you lose speed in horizontal maneuvers. Do you really understand what I’m saying? Oh my god
You said yourself that a speed under 7G can maintain speed, good, so a speed under 7G will allow you to avoid F86 or mig15 attacks in most cases?
OK OK you are the best, with your pilot, you surpass all players and can even win with a fighter below their 1.0! That’s great! I understand, so according to your statement, those who drive 3.0 fighters into the 7.0 room, lucky to win the victory, there will be your remarks, I think XXX fighter can fight back higher than his current level of fighters, I can do very well, it is your play is not good, is your own problem. But what is most of the time? Are you telling me that regardless of any game, the player only needs to operate normally to be able to perform stably, and the other player’s extreme operation can barely cope with the nature of the same? You don’t have to answer me that question, and I don’t need your answer, because you’re divorced from the truth.
There is a reason why I single out F86 or mig15, these two fighters…Original meaning
Finally I will explain and tell you why, the reason why I don’t want to discuss it with you anymore. As long as GAIJIN doesn’t make any changes to the current ho229 issues, anyone who has played or advanced ho229 will have a good idea. As for what I have said, there are people who can distinguish.
Attempting to operate the F86 or MiG-15 can provide insight into the performance characteristics of these aircraft, as well as highlight the limitations of the Ho229, particularly its inferior acceleration, as previously mentioned. When engaging with the F86 or MiG-15, one must consider the historical context of over 2,800 enemy aircraft destroyed, excluding nearly a year’s worth of data. After filtering out versions 6.0 and 7.0, we are left with version 8.0 fighters. How many of these did you actually shoot down? Furthermore, reviewing footage of engagements with novice F86 or MiG-15 pilots or incomplete airframes does not substantiate the claim that the Ho229 can effectively counter these aircraft. Does this reasoning hold water? Would the evidence and data you possess support such an argument if presented to another individual?
The Ho229’s ability to counter the F86 or MiG-15 is questionable. It is unwise to draw conclusions based solely on a few victories against inexperienced pilots or incomplete aircraft. With sufficient experience, one should be able to discern the pilot’s skill level, the completeness of the airframe, and the appropriateness of maneuvers, all of which influence the outcome.
To summarize your points: First, you assert that the Ho229 can effectively counter the F86 or MiG-15. Second, you believe that experienced players with more combat records than you lack a deeper understanding of the aircraft, attributing this to fatigue and suggesting that you can better exploit the full potential of the fighter. However, this perspective overlooks the broader context and the actual performance metrics of the Ho229.
Your argument hinges on a few victories against the F86 or MiG-15, disregarding the broader operational environment and the specific conditions under which the Ho229 operates. Even if you are an exceptionally skilled player, achieving optimal results through advanced techniques, the majority of players operate at a basic level. How often do they encounter situations similar to yours, where the opposing F86 or MiG-15 is at a disadvantage?
Previous responses have thoroughly analyzed your historical data (types of enemy fighters shot down), your discussion framework, and your basic understanding of the Ho229, especially regarding its maneuverability and speed retention issues. The Ho229 is designed as an energy fighter, and while BZ is a conventional tactic, it heavily relies on altitude. Evasive maneuvers cause significant speed loss, and the only way to regain speed quickly is to dive. This reliance on energy output for evasive maneuvers, without significant speed, makes it vulnerable to energy-based tactics from the F86 or MiG-15. In most scenarios, especially against multiple F86 or MiG-15 opponents, the Ho229 struggles to counter effectively.
Therefore, I will not engage further in this discussion.
You’re grasping for straws here. Upgrades to Korean jets will not change anything when fighting planes made in earlier time periods. Going from massive energy capabilities to massive energy capabilities + extra makes no difference in the context of fighting planes with drastically different strength points.
If you look at what I did in the replays, you will see that it does not matter how skillful the opponent is or how lucky I may be, because I physically FORCE opponents to miss me. There is no luck involved, and competent players still have to obey physics. To hit someone, the attacker MUST lead. The shells MUST travel, and that takes time. Both of those conditions give me a window where I can move myself out of potential hits, completely safely. Watch the replays.
This is very much a possibility. The number of battles (or K/D or K/B) does not indicate with certainty that the player learned everything they could. When gauging how skillful a pilot is, what truly matters is what a pilot does in battle. I watched some of your replays, and from seeing your playstyle, I can perfectly see why you complain about thrust issues and running out of energy in LOOP.
As another example, I’ve met a certain player that has an OBSCENE number of battles in ONE plane (some crazy number like 25k battles, don’t remember the exact number). He even had a positive K/D! Surely he’s a grandmaster of all War Thunder players right?
His playstyle was as follows: Climb to space, do nothing, wait until enemy team is down to a few players, then dive from space to the deck, often just compressing into the ground. He was not a bot, he responds in chat. I like him for his personality so I’m not going to share his name.
The tens of thousands of battles did not teach him how to use that one plane.
That’s not a reason to handhold them. They should learn how to use the plane. There is nothing wrong with planes that require learning to be effective with.
I don’t think so.
Excellent, interacting with a brick wall is quite tiring, surprisingly.
a little late bud yes it has the wrong engines as gaijin just copied some engines from different jets such as the 262 rather than add the engines it really had irl which are jumo 004B2 engines not 004D engines which are only a minor difference plus A real fake plane would be the r2y2 or f16 AJ which are crackpipe planes gaijin cooked up cause there lazy
you are right yes because i looked at the wrong jumo its a 15% increase that gijin wont at add because of balance reasons they refuse to give its actual top speed and restrict it for some reason
bug reports are almost always ignored. I reported duplicated faces on J5n1’s cockpit scope, inverted normals, inconsistencies with rigging and the planes stayed the same for half a decade.
the horten is unflyable regardless whether you’re right or wrong with your theories.
Reasons?
-The guns deal not enough damage
-The guns have a low rate of fire
-The plane flies like it’s already handicapped
-It’s a huge target
-It’s slower than a Spitfire mk24 at level flight
-No engine power
-Fragile
Most of my enemies get destroyed from one or two shots landing. (Air belts)
I’ll give you that, sometimes shots go around enemies. Not an issue most of the time.
Only for people that did not put enough time to familiarize themselves with it.
Only if you create situations where you show your broadside.
No.
Spit mk24 is 615 KMH on the deck, compared w/ Ho 229 going 885 KMH on the deck. Source: dogeness’ “War Thunder Top Speeds at Sea Level” chart.
If you mean acceleration, then that only holds true for acceleration at low speed, the Ho 229 will accelerate better at mid-high speed (anything close to Spit’s top speed and higher). Don’t be slow in a jet plane.
Accelerates better and flies faster than Vampires (8.0 BR lol)
The agility lets you dodge forever. Don’t get hit.
I killed people when I’m with a single wing before, too.
The plane is only unflyable for people that are not familiar with it.
