Historical Request: Add Dutch AH-64E Guardian to German Tech Tree (Legitimate Joint Corps Operational Attachment, Consistent with Leopard 2RI Japan Precedent)

Machinery of War Discussion Helicopter
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Hello everyone and Gaijin Team,

I am submitting a fully evidence-backed request to add the Royal Netherlands Air Force AH-64E Guardian to the German helicopter tech tree.

This request strictly follows War Thunder’s own vehicle classification rules and official real-world military formation data.

1. Core Official Military Fact (Hard Proof)

Since March 17, 2016, the Dutch 43 Mechanised Brigade has been permanently integrated into the German 1st Panzer Division under the official I German-Dutch Corps structure.

This is peacetime permanent operational subordination, not temporary exercise cooperation.

Official Sources:

The Dutch 43 Mechanised Brigade uses German operational doctrine, falls under German division-level command, and contains the unique German-Dutch 414 Tank Battalion — the only fully mixed bilateral tank unit in NATO.

2. Dutch AH-64E’s Fixed Wartime Mission: Exclusive Air Support for German-Led Dutch Brigade

RNLAF 301 Squadron is the designated dedicated attack helicopter unit for all Dutch army frontline formations, including the German-attached 43 Mechanised Brigade.

Official Dutch MoD task definition:https://defensie.nl/organisatie/luchtmacht/vliegbases-en-luchtmachtonderdelen/gilze-rijen/squadrons-defensie-helikopter-commando

The AH-64E fleet’s primary role is anti-armor close air support for Dutch mechanised forces, which now operate under German 1st Panzer Division operational control during both exercises and wartime.

This means:Dutch AH-64E aircraft are operationally attached to German armored forces.

3. Killing Argument: Gaijin’s Own Leopard 2RI Precedent Proves This Request Is 100% Valid

Gaijin has confirmed adding the Indonesian Leopard 2RI to the Japanese tech tree.

Crucial comparison:

  • Leopard 2RI (Japan tree): ZERO real-world connection to Japan No Japanese development, no Japanese modification, no joint training, no unified command, no military cooperation whatsoever. Pure foreign tank with zero ties.

  • Dutch AH-64E (German tree): STRONG PERMANENT OPERATIONAL BINDING The helicopter’s sole supported ground brigade is permanently under German Army command, inside a formal bilateral German-Dutch corps structure with unified German operational leadership.

This creates an undeniable rule:

If a vehicle with 0 military ties can be added to a faction — a vehicle with proven permanent operational faction ties must be allowed as well.

There is no logical reason to reject the Dutch AH-64E for Germany while accepting Leopard 2RI for Japan.

4. German Army Historical & Tactical Connection to the AH-64 Platform

Before the Tiger UHT entered service, the German Army fully evaluated the AH-64 platform and completed complete pilot and maintenance training programs for the Apache series.

For decades, German armored divisions conducted large-scale joint air-ground training with US Army AH-64s stationed in Germany.

Today, German-Dutch joint exercises routinely combine German Tiger UHT + Dutch AH-64E as the official dual heavy attack helicopter team for the 1st German-Dutch Corps.

Germany has extensive doctrinal and operational experience with the Apache platform.

5. Perfectly Fits War Thunder Faction Rules

War Thunder faction assignment prioritizes operational command affiliation, not ownership or origin country.

Existing game rules prove this:

  • Commonwealth vehicles in British tree
  • Benelux vehicles in French subtree
  • Foreign-operated vehicles assigned by combat formation

The Dutch 43 Brigade’s entire combat framework is built around German tactics, German command structure, and German armored doctrine.

The Netherlands has no comparable fixed operational bond with France, so placing these helicopters in a French Benelux subtree is historically incorrect.

6. Full Rebuttals to All Counterarguments (Flawless Logic)

Counter 1: “AH-64 is Dutch property, cannot be German”

Response:Vehicle ownership is not War Thunder’s classification standard.The Indonesian Leopard 2RI is 100% Indonesian property but is placed in Japan’s tree with zero operational links.The Dutch AH-64E has actual German operational command ties, making it far more eligible.

Counter 2: “Germany never fielded the Apache”

Response:Faction assignment does not require domestic service.Japan never fielded, trained with, or commanded the Leopard 2RI at all, yet it is accepted.Germany has trained for, operated alongside, and tactically commanded Apache-supporting armored formations for decades.

Counter 3: “It belongs to French Benelux subtree”

Response:The Dutch 43 Mechanised Brigade is permanently integrated into German NATO command structure, not French EU or Benelux command structures.Its entire wartime chain of command is German. No French affiliation exists.

7. Game Balance Reason

German top-tier helicopter gameplay currently relies solely on the Tiger UHT, which lacks millimeter-wave radar, all-weather standoff detection, and long-range mass anti-armor capability.

The AH-64E perfectly complements the Tiger UHT in its real-world German-Dutch high-low pairing and fills a legitimate gap in Germany’s modern anti-armor aviation lineup.

Conclusion

  1. The Dutch AH-64E has verifiable permanent operational attachment to the German 1st Panzer Division.
  2. Gaijin’s own Leopard 2RI for Japan precedent eliminates all double standards.
  3. Faction rules are based on combat command affiliation, not national ownership.
  4. This addition is historically accurate, rule-compliant, and balances German top-tier air support.

Please add the Dutch AH-64E Guardian to the German helicopter tech tree.

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Damn, that’s a lot of cope

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There is a connection, Indonesias home is in Japan, that is where there vehicles go.

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The Netherlands is a sub-tree of France, consistent with the Indonesian sub-tree of Japan.
What your post is demanding is a double standard.

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Best option would be adding German H145M, which has SPIKEs and will also be equipped with Elbit LDIRCM in the near future (irl).

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You are asking for a vehicle that already exists in the french tree

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Knowing gaijin, this will probably happen. Copy pasting vehicles seems to be the easy way out

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I’ll restate my core argument once more, separating historical logic from in-game categorization:

First, a joint German-Dutch army coordination framework exists historically. The AH-64E fleets operated by the Netherlands were procured specifically to cooperate with German ground forces, serving as supporting aviation assets for the joint German-Dutch military contingent. From a historical standpoint, these attack helicopters logically belong to the German-Dutch lineup, and there is no valid historical basis to assign them to Japan’s tech tree branch.

Second, Indonesia’s Leopard tanks have zero fundamental ties to Japan. They were neither co-developed with Japan, manufactured under Japanese licensing, nor resold via Japanese procurement channels. All core technology and supply chains originate entirely from Germany. There is no historical evidence whatsoever to justify classifying Indonesian armored vehicles as a sub-line under Japan’s faction.

Please do not cite administrator rulings to counter historical facts. Grouping Indonesian vehicles under Japan’s branch is merely a gameplay compromise made by developers to flesh out tech trees and balance vehicle counts across factions—it is an artificial game design rule, not an accurate reflection of real-world military industrial origins.

Any argument that prioritizes arbitrary in-game balance rules over the actual development history, procurement background, and military cooperation records of military hardware is fundamentally flawed and logically unsound. Are we supposed to judge vehicle faction affiliation solely by game categorization while completely ignoring real historical context?

Short Retorts (for follow-up rebuttals)

  1. In-game categorization is a gameplay compromise; historical origin is objective reality—these two cannot be conflated.
  2. If you can provide official records proving Japan co-developed or supplied technology for Indonesia’s Leopard tanks, I will concede your point.
  3. The joint German-Dutch military coordination doctrine is well-documented, and the designated role of Dutch AH-64Es is a matter of public record—this cannot be dismissed by game rules alone.
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What do you mean by vehicles already present in the French tech tree? German Leopard tanks are fielded by nearly every nation anyway. Besides, the Dutch AH-64E shares an inseparable operational connection with the German Bundeswehr from the very beginning. So why can’t it be added to the German-Dutch lineup?

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As in it is already in the french TT

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The German new H145M light helicopter is a decent option overall, but it’s still just a light utility platform with far too limited ordnance capacity. When facing Russian air defense systems like the Pantsir, such a small weapons load simply isn’t enough to stand a fighting chance. That’s why I still believe the AH-64E is a far better candidate worth pushing for.
After all, the Dutch variant of the AH-64E has proven deep operational ties with the German Bundeswehr both historically and in modern joint NATO deployments. Gaijin keeps asking for credible source materials while also prioritizing in-game balance, yet they refuse to add this vehicle even when solid supporting documentation is fully provided. I still firmly believe adding this helicopter would be the optimal solution, as Germany’s current top-tier lineup is severely lacking viable attack helicopter options, and the overall gameplay experience has become quite underwhelming following the latest update.

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The reality is that subtree placement is generally based on broader national representation and long-term tree structure. Benelux was assigned to France as a subtree, and Dutch vehicles have been added there accordingly. Once that framework exists, individual vehicles are normally expected to follow it unless there is a very compelling reason not to (aka when they become an independent tree).

There’s more to a subtree than a barely 10 year-old NATO command structure.

Moreover, this vehicle is already in the game.

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Does the presence of this vehicle in the French tech tree block it from being added to other factions? How many Leopard 2 variants have been assigned to Germany already? You should not fixate solely on this single point to counter my argument. Are you simply ignoring all the historical facts I’ve laid out?

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Yes, because the netherlands is a sub tree of france in game, so all of their equipment would be added into the french tt

How is that relevant to the DUTCH ah64e, because DUCH leopards are also in the FRENCH tech tre not in the GERMAN tech tree

Yes. Because it doesnt matter.

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The Netherlands is a subtree of France, meaning that all Dutch vehicles will go to France.

As explained more eloquently above, the Netherlands are now tied to a main tech tree, and the only remaining progression option is to an independent tech tree such as the Benelux TT.