Plenty of CAS can just drop their FnF load (all they have) and hunt for planes. CAP exist as well.
It’s okay for a RU plane.
Good thing that turn fight isn’t the only way to fight planes.
Also, I’ve had landing flaps break well below 550km/h on the deck, so I hope that graph counts for that as well.
Just had them break at 490km/h with minimum fuel and only AAMs.
Preflaring exist, especially when you have infinite amount of flares.
That might be true on paper when you look at their loadouts. Kurnass shits out his 6x 65Ds and goes to rearm, all the while Su-39 is busy guiding his Laser stuff while being really exposed to any CAP around.
The time you need to spend in battle to use all of your weaponry should be taken into consideration as well.
China has APS that can intercept targets up to 1400m/s, but still Iron Fist is easily the best one out there and definitely isn’t a gimmick.
I’m not really scared of any of them other than maybe the F-5E FCU or Mirage 2000DR1.
Until you realise that you can’t use your energy against rear-aspect R-73s…
It doesn’t, but you should look at the graph where it is below 490km/h, as that would show you its practical instantaneous turn rate rather than some theoretical turn rate past that speed.
Preflaring can help quite a bit (especially in front-aspect), but no amount of preflaring can help when you have an R-73 2km behind you while you’re slow.
If you decide to just zoom past then you just lost a ton of position over the Su-25T / Su-39.
You think I’ve never seen someone try do that to me?
Agreed.
I can see why I’d take 6x mavericks over the Su-25T’s.
Though it may just depend on the situation.
It’s like with the F&Fs helicopters and Kamovs.
Kamovs are way more capable of getting more kills per flyout and time flying, but it also is more risky.
Agreed.
That too I guess, though from what I can remember, its armour or mobility is worse than the ZTZ99A, so it’s just as good if not worse.
People can boom and zoom you and you can do nothing about it.
I’m curious about turn speeds at higher speeds as well, of course with no landing flaps on Su-39 as it’s not possible.
Again, turning against something that might turn better than you isn’t a good idea, especially when you can easily outrun the thing.
With some A2G strapped to my wings, I managed to break flaps at 430ish km/h.
Front aspect shots are flared easily anyways.
Preflaring can stop you from actually locking up the plane, which gives you some time to run away.
That position is easy to get back against such a slow plane.
Also, enemy actively trying to zoom you stops you from using most of your A2G kit as it’s limited to laser.
One thing to note, what you gonna do when you notice someone is willing to fight, jettison all your shit or take the 1300-1600kg of added weight and drag ?
Baiting someone into doing this doesn’t seem that hard.
On that vehicle APS is definitely more of a gimmick.
GRB is going to turn into a shit show when other nations get APS similar to Iron Fist.
I should’ve rephrased that.
I mean more careful against.
The F-5E FCU has fairly good flight performance and the DR1 has IRCCM missiles.
Both are potent if not handled correctly.
With that being said, other than running away, these CAS aircraft should also be careful against the Su-25T / Su-39.
You can’t just preflare and ignore it, unlike against planes with Python 3s.
How are you going to boom and zoom when the moment you pass a competent Su-39, they’ve already turned extremely quickly with landing flaps, locked you up with dogfight ACM, and then fired an R-73 or two at you?
I’m sorry but the way you play against Su-25Ks isn’t the same way you deal with them.
Didn’t say they weren’t.
Sure, but if we’re talking about the Su-39, it can just use its radar to slave a lock onto the plane - not the flares.
Ok, let’s say you managed to escape <2km death range.
You are going to extend as far as you can… and then what?
Go for a head-on with vikhirs flying towards you?
Climb high above it and then try striking down below?
Then the Su-25T can simply launch vikhirs while you’re high and slow, or just go for the head-on with guns and vikhirs when you come down.
That’s true, though you don’t have to drop all your ordnance.
If I know I have to drop some stuff (if I know they fully comitted to fight), I’d still keep the vikhirs - as they’re fairly lightweight and usable against all kinds of threats (though mileage may vary).
If they don’t seem to be fully committing to the dogfight, then there’s no reason to drop any.
This all depends on the angle enemy came from.
He is going to be pretty fast and you need to be pretty slow to begin with in order to drop the flaps.
If you were engaged while being slow (400-450 km/h) it means you’re a pretty easy target to gun down considering your size. He doesn’t even need to outright kill you, as taking some damage will decrease your turn performance and you’ll get shit on regardless.
If you were going 800 you’ll need some time to slow down to actually deploy flaps.
Forcing Su-39 to hunt for headons results in it totally abandoning A2G work while still having 10+ pieces of ordnance.
Kurnass can drop Mavs and RTB or basically force Su-39 into a CAP role it’s sub-par at.
A2A and A2G are two mutually exclusive things for the 39. So you can either pick A2G while being zoomed or A2A forcing headons on things you can’t even catch.
Denying 39 to have much impact on the game doesn’t seem hard.
I used air brakes and then put on landing flaps.
This just makes it so that you can turn extremely well and dump all your speed to get instantaneous turn rate.
Then you just clap anything that dares to dogfight you:
I was playing too wreckless and had two stingers impact me while I was not looking - tanked them though.
I was fully functional still, as you can see by the damage indicator.
I doubt that you can do that with other aircraft - though you may not need to.
Dropping air brake and flaps, while trying to lock the enemy with your radar and possibly having to launch seriously off-bore shots while going relatively slow doesn’t look promising. Thrust vectoring missiles can get weird when launched from low speeds as well.
What was the story there ?
He has like 6x SARHs to throw at you.
Su-39 is pretty big and not that fast, so is probably the easiest thing someone can shoot at.
You don’t need to kill it to reduce it’s effectiveness to 0.
It’ll still need 10s+ of peace to guide his Laser munition + any additional time to actually find something that’s worth shooting at.
All of this to just stay relatively safe from another CAS. If CAP arrives you won’t even be able to use all your ordnance before you get clubbed.
All that aside, for most people this plane will either be at 11.7 due to lack of a solid 11.3 lineup, or they’ll be fighting with 80B and 90A at 11.3. This is like picking your poison.
When talking about CAP role I was including fighters as well.
Some of your enemies can relegate you to CAP, and at that point you’d be better off taking a fighter instead.
They’re fine.
How controllable are they at near their max range though ?
Yeah 11.3 CAS doesn’t really need to worry about Stingers as they’re easily outranged. From what distance did they launch approximately ?
You don’t have to go as slow as possible, only retract airbrakes once you are at your optimum speed to deploy landing flaps (keep in mind that it takes time for the flaps to deploy and to break off… this means that you can deploy them by around 700km/h from my experience), then just go full throttle until you no longer need to turn. You can maintain speed of around 600km/h after that, unless you need to continue the 2-circle, in which it would probably be closer to 400km/h.
And he did try killing me with SARHs:
Other than the A-10, sure, it’s probably one of the easiest targets to shoot.
That being said, you don’t have to make it easy.
As long as you don’t have to deal with SARH / IRCCM missiles, I honestly don’t care if there’s an F-5E (who I just forced to extend far away) coming for me at 5km with around 300m closing distance. who can only kill me within 1km.
Not to mention that Python 3s (or any non-IRCCM missle for that matter) are completely useless when shot from behind the Su-25T - even without deploying flares.
Isn’t that the case with any CAS at 11.3???
What is your point here?
[quote=“MotorolaCRO, post:231, topic:207206”]
From what distance did they launch approximately ?
I popped up from the deck from around 2.5km (not a great move if I’m being honest, but I didn’t expect the SPAA to still be looking for me over there), to which they probably fired it near the same time.
Hit me around 5km out.
I mean, maybe.
But maybe you are just underestimating the Su-25T’s ability?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Serious question, is that a bot or just a level 0 player ?
Sure thing, but combination of both can simply be too much against someone decent.
You’ll have SARH missiles at even lower BR than 11.3, so you’re in a bit of a rough time if you meet those. Not to mention that at 11.7 you’ll have jets with 120s and IRCCM (ICE and Tornado) both at the same time.
Not really when most of their kit is FnF, meanwhile you’ll have 18 Laser missiles and only 2 FnFs. It might look like you have the better kit, but when airspace is contested that isn’t really the case.
I’m surprised it actually hit you after 5kms of travel.
True, Su-25/39 can mind control enemy AAs to sit tightly packed and not even try shooting you from <3km.
Not sure, but as you can see, in reality, most GRB matches consist of rarely any CAP, let alone good players in them.
I guess.
SARH missiles are one of the least things I’m worried about.
I usually stay low unless it’s right at the start, where I’d be launching my Kh-29Ts already.
Plus RWR and multipathing is a thing.
Sure, though the F4F ICE is more of a CAP than a multi-role (only two Mavericks and a bunch of dumb bombs / rockets). Same with the Tornado (Pure CAP).
You keep saying there’s going to be great players in CAP and CAS - making the air space extremely contested.
This isn’t true most of the time, to be honest.
Out of the 194 games I have played in it, I’d say 70% of my deaths was because of SPAA (that being me being too wreckless, them being too many / spawn in and kill me right off the bat with SPAA (so I wouldn’t have been able to react to it anyways), and then maybe 10% because of my great piloting skills (crashing). The other 20% was actually because of CAP or competent SPAA players in good SPAA vehicles.
Stingers have a max range of 5km, so I think it was probably more like 4 / 4.5 km.
Luckily for the LAV-AD that shot it, I was busy killing the heli and screenshotting it 😅
Indeed.
'tis the average game of Top Tier GRB.
Hence why I’d prefer being able to keep crapping on their ground / air team until they try to stop me (with whatever (often) futile attempts they throw at me), than of being let down from that opportunity because I have to RTB and spend 2 mins rearming.
Do you get my stance on this?
I agree that the Kurnass / Mirage 2000 DR1 / F-5E FCU is better for Squadron Realistic Battles, though.
There, you can only spawn in once, and it’s an 8v8.
So the sheer number of ordnance you can carry on the Su-25T / Su-39 starts to not really matter as much, and the more you can use your mavericks / AS-30Ls for other things (like making the life of helicopters more annoying) than just using all of them for ground targets and then running out before having to deal with other forms of threats.
They are something that can engage you from further out and will immediately force you on the defense.
There isn’t any true multi role at that BR.
Those jets can shut down the airspace for any CAS. People not using really effective counters is a bit on them though.
You don’t really need great players in CAP to shut you down.
I do get what you’re trying to say, but saying Su-39 is extremely strong at it’s BR would be valid if it was indeed that strong when looking at other things around it’s BR.
Vehicle doesn’t really look that OP, it’s more the players (or lack of them) that are lacking when it comes to spawning vehicles.
This might be the same like the Kamov vs FnF story.
Both Kamov and Su-39 are stronger when there’s no opposition, but when semi-decent counters get spawned both of their efficiencies drops significantly.
This can’t be said for FnF helicopters, or in this case, FnF jets with decent loads like Kurnass.
Yeah, not denying that.
Certainly a lot of bad players in top tier (mainly due to premium vehicles).
Notching sure, but flying low and directly towards them… I wouldn’t call that playing defensive.
Yes, you’re right.
I’m saying the Su-25T and others like it are somewhat in the middle, but can’t do both perfectly - unlike the Eurofighters and Rafales at top tier.
I can’t say that the Su-34 is a true multi-role either.
Yeah.
Apparently not lol
Sure.
Well. I think it could be 11.7.
Same with the Mirage 2000DR-1, and maybe the Kurnass 2000.
I think I can confidently face against a FlaRakRad, for example, with my Su-25T.
Maybe even an ADATS.
But I think I could retract my statement of it being broken (same with the Su-34), and just say that the Su-39 is pretty strong for 11.3.
I guess, though in SRB Kamovs are used way more because of its other abilities, and the less problematic SPAAs are when you only have to deal with one, that can only spawn in once.
Kurnass is slightly better in SRB than the Su-39 only because of the mavericks ease of use and how quickly you can get to the AO and launch them after taking off.
Other than that, I’d use the Su-39 against other aircraft over the Kurnass, even though it gets 6x Python 3s.
There are better options than either of them too, for SRB at least, which is the Mirage 2000DR-1, which can do better A2A than either of them, but lacks enough ground ordnance to make a substantial impact on the ground.
This is where 4x Mirage 2000DR1s out of the 8 comes to play… maybe 1x Z-19 / Ka-50 instead of another Mirage 2000.
Which doesn’t really affect me in any way after the merge.
Just that it sucks ass compared to stuff like the Eurofighter and Rafale.
Though it also is able to face 10.3s, which have little to no defensive or offensive capabilities, other than their guns and rear-aspect missiles (which don’t have any affect on the Su-25T / Su-39 due to IRCM).
Can’t really say the same with the Su-34, which still has to deal with ARH in a full downtier.
Once again, you don’t merge with them.
They can just keep you on a leash like a dog, you aren’t able to do neither A2G nor A2A. Best option is just to J-out when you meet someone semi-competent.
Lucky for you, premium “players” are abundant.
Su-34 definitely feels like a better plane for it’s BR, at any circumstances.
You get rid of your Kh-38s and try your luck with ARHs or R-73s.
And I’m telling you that I have had situations like these, against good players I know.
They can’t really do much to me, and either I kill them in their Phantom FGR.2, for example, right after the merge, or they extend away far enough for me to not care about them for at least 30 seconds.
How do you know?
Have you played the Su-25T before?
And you are generally lucky that there is no uptier at 12.7, otherwise it would definitely be worse than the Su-25T, when you look at what’s to come for 13.0 (if no decompression comes around).