Most of your post is minor details that I don’t think we should be arguing over.
Or perspective that’s mostly personal, which we shouldn’t be arguing over.
It does not matter if we think Mi-28NM or Apache is better than the other, cause all of the non-F&F helicopters are worse than the F&F helicopters, and the F&F helicopters are worse than the fixed-wing CAS.
My entire point is the helicopters are fine at their BRs currently.
IF SPAA BRs change, helicopters should change with them, that is my primary statement about helicopters.
Also you are the first ever person to claim Z-10, Rooivalk, Ka-52, Mi-28NM, etc are more powerful than 12.0 BR.
All the takes of Ka-52 being OP where when it was 11.3.
I am saying that you have made your own echo chamber, not the community.
I have had many cooperative and useful conversations with people - namely with @MotorolaCRO.
This is distinctly a problem that you seem to have, and what seems to be the case with other people that try to have a meaningful and good-faith discussions on different topics with you.
You seem to never be able to admit when you are wrong on a certain topic (especially by discrediting and making it seem like someone is spreading ‘propaganda’), and makes it harder for others to accept when they are wrong as well.
@rainy2000
Well, when you decide to play top SRB, I recommend it; especially for SPAA grinding, cause it’s the easiest mode to play SPAA in.
Also I listen to the entirety of the WT community, keep tabs on takes. Thousands, ten-thousands.
Also I’ve admitted to having wrong information hundreds of times in the last year; just cause you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
When there’s a change I change, as one should.
When Su-27SM changed, I changed.
When Vikhr became fully fixed in early 2023, I stopped calling it OP cause it no longer was.
When Apache’s AGM-114s started tracking helicopters correctly in late 2019, my position on them changed [that’s where all my AH-64A Peten air kills came from, fragging Ka-50s in heli PVP using AGM-114s].
When F-15E was nerfed hard, I changed again.
Hundreds of changes in the last year for hundreds of aspects of War Thunder.
Non-F&F helicopters are not OP at this time. They may have been in the past, and were in many instances; currently all but Israel and Japan have on-the-ground counters to them.
All those changes, and yet your takes, especially about helicopters, seem so wrong.
Maybe it’s just the difference between competitive matches and casual matches, but the reason why all top helicopter players during 8v8s play KA-52, AH.MK1 or (sometimes) Z-10 is simply because they’re just superior to everything else in most aspects.
Why would they pick those if they could just pick the ‘better’ F&Fs helicopters?
Either you are talking about casual play, or you don’t believe the top helicopter players are playing the right vehicles.
Max BR in GRB is 12.7, but it is true that ground vehicles only go up to 12.0.
I think there needs to be further decompression for ground vehicles, and possible 13.7 for GRB (to decompress the aircraft you can take out, as well as the helicopters.
The last time I died to a helicopter was 2023, I was in my Abrams and it took 3 - 5 missiles to kill me cause all it could see was my front armor.
In-fact, here’s where I was on the map:
The last time I almost died to a helicopter was a SPIKE hitting my Challenger 2 in 2024 and taking out a crew member. A retreat stopped them from getting another one off.
I’d love for @HondaCivici 's statements to be anywhere near correct, but they aren’t.
Fixed-wing CAS is so far ahead of helicopters in power compared to helicopters, and all top SPAA is vastly superior to the helicopters as well.
The only real SPAA that I’d consider on-par with Apache, Mi-28NM, and so on would be 2S6.
By minor details, do you mean the points I made in response to yours? So unless your saying that the things you’ve said is minor, I don’t know what to say.
It is significantly cheaper to bring in a heli than to bring in a fully kitted aircraft. If they were the same sp, then I can understand where you’re coming from. But if all it takes me is a kill and assist to spawn in a fully kitted ka52 which can cause havoc, I don’t see how that is not op.
Top squadrons don’t bring helicopters into SQB, cause they’re trying to stay on top not die to the enemy jets or Pantsirs.
@HondaCivici
And no, fully kit aircraft is ~940 vs ~550 for a helicopter that’s a guaranteed death when SPAA is up.
The 940 will grant you 4 - 10 frags, the helicopter guarantees nothing.
And no, Apache, Ka-52, Z-10, and Rooivalk are not OP no matter how much your post claims because all it takes is one player to be in a SPAA to prevent you from doing anything.
This is not true, since I know as a fact that there are players (who I know) in top squadrons, such as AVR, who actively play Ka-52 at 12.0 SRB, and even 12.7.
I’ve never played helicopters incorrectly.
I’ve experimented beyond the meta plays, and sought out deaths to get information that only deaths can bring, but I’ve done everything at least once with every helicopter except SPIKE slinging cause I lack that.
I even played Ka-52 when SACLOS fixes were done so I could see if my tactics changed [they didn’t].
Helicopters aren’t meta, they’re good, heavily situational, but not meta.
I’m not going to whataboutism SQB either cause SQB tactics are entirely different to random battles.
At least with heli PVE you can practice the tank desync that happens with the visual and damage models that happens after a few km.
I believe that the tactics in SQB is jets and MBTs with the odd Pantsir for meta, which is accurate from the records of active players for the top 10 squadrons.
If ANY helicopter is spawned it better well be against a team that didn’t spawn SPAA, cause that’s a dead weight aircraft otherwise.
Also nice screenshot of a team without SPAA, exactly like the video I linked earlier.
