Helicopter's max BR needs to be increased

[Commodus6504]

@rainy2000

No wonder people say that they are useless.

I didn’t write that they are useless. However, in most cases there are alternatives that are far more useful.

@rainy2000

Sorry, but you completely ignore the capabilties of those helicopters when used properly.

There is a certain line between saying you are playing well or your opponent is letting you play well :-).

If the AA is bad or overwhelmed by the situation, a helicopter can of course cause a lot of damage. Then btw. the helicopters with guided rockets are significantly better than those with FnF.
A similar round to the one linked looks similar with a Tiger UHT.
Due to the poor performance of the PARS, you don’t shoot 10 tanks, but 6.

@rainy2000

I’ve tested countless of people to see their abilities in CAS with their Gripens, F-15Es, F-16Cs vs my unspaded Pantsir for my Squadron.
A lot of those who I’ve tested don’t know how to CAS and they often think that the Pantsir is impossible to defeat in a 1v1.

The problem isn’t a Pantsir in 1 vs 1. In my opinion, it has almost no chance if you move carefully with the helicopter.
But that takes time. Which you don’t have because the time until a jet spots you is very limited.

And if there are several Pantsir in the field (and that is the norm), then it will be more than difficult to find a window for a jump over the tree line.

I think the situation is messed up. On the one hand, the SPAA are fairly well balanced against helicopters and so the helicopters (that was actually the point) are placed quite well in their BRs.
I notice this because, as a prime example of a mediocre player, I am moderately successful with the UHT.
However, I have a problem that is also reflected in my KDR. I will soon be shooting down more aircraft than ground targets and will also be shot down by them. It feels like half the Russian or American team consists of jets that are constantly circling over the helifields.

And I agree with you. The JETs are the real problem. The latest additions (and I’m observing this with my EF2000) are simply too strong.

[rainy2000]

@Commodus6504

There is a certain line between saying you are playing well or your opponent is letting you play well :-).

Sure, but again, good SPAA players also struggle to deal with them too, especially if they have to deal with other aircraft as well.

@Commodus6504

If the AA is bad or overwhelmed by the situation, a helicopter can of course cause a lot of damage.

Sure.

@Commodus6504

Then btw. the helicopters with guided rockets are significantly better than those with FnF.

Agreed.

@Commodus6504

The problem isn’t a Pantsir in 1 vs 1. In my opinion, it has almost no chance if you move carefully with the helicopter.
But that takes time. Which you don’t have because the time until a jet spots you is very limited.

Yes, jets are ultimately the bane of helicopters - not denying that.
I wish that aircraft for GRB are decompressed to at least 13.3.
(Again, I don’t see why the SU-25SM3 is 0.3 BR lower than Su-34, depsite the Su-34 being significantly better than it)

@Commodus6504

And if there are several Pantsir in the field (and that is the norm), then it will be more than difficult to find a window for a jump over the tree line.

Sure, but you could say the same with the sheer number of aircraft that those pantsirs have to deal with in the meantime.

@Commodus6504

I think the situation is messed up. On the one hand, the SPAA are fairly well balanced against helicopters and so the helicopters (that was actually the point) are placed quite well in their BRs.

I’d say if both were competent, then helis still have an edge due to not having to react to things, and instead be the one to get themselves into danger / be on the offensive.

@Commodus6504

However, I have a problem that is also reflected in my KDR. I will soon be shooting down more aircraft than ground targets and will also be shot down by them. It feels like half the Russian or American team consists of jets that are constantly circling over the helifields.

Yes, which is why I think there needs to be a higher BR cap so that those aircraft go up, and so that the helis can slightly go up and change a bit so that the American Apache isn’t the same BR as the British Apache, for example.

@Commodus6504

And I agree with you. The JETs are the real problem. The latest additions (and I’m observing this with my EF2000) are simply too strong.

Yes.

[UniqueScorpions]

They need to add back helicopter pad spaa, to prevent planes or helis from camping the spawns

[rainy2000]

Maybe with a smaller radius, but I don’t think it would help much against F&Fs and laser-guided munitions.
It may just make it more annoying to dogfight around the AO, though.

[UniqueScorpions]

Good. There is no reason planes get protected but helicopters aren’t. It would also minorly help against CAS spam, I’m taking AI Gepard or equivalent.

[UniqueScorpions]

All the helicopters in game are very loud, louder than planes usually, which helicopters are typically only heard 2 miles away~

[MrKrabsPattys]

that’s what i am saying. I can fly under the trees and for some reason the typical 2S38 knows my exact location

[UniqueScorpions]

Ah yes the helicopter is louder than a jet going Mach 2

[HondaCivici]

@RavenGuardMarine

Regardless, yes AGM65D is better and something tells me the kills you have on your SU34 weren’t from you taking the 38MLs

You’re right. I strongly prefer the MTs over the MLs. It’s got a thermal imager (with good zoom) and I can launch multiple agms at once.However I cannot say the same about the Mavericks. They are extremely slow, and the heat warhead is inconsistent.

That’s besides the point. My point in talking about the MTs vs the Mavericks is to show that there are other factors that determine the lethality of an AGM. Mavericks take quite a while to reach it’s target. During that time, it can easily be intercepted, smoked, and evaded.

Yes FnF has a lot of potential to be amazing however we haven’t reached that yet. Reliability is the biggest downside of these systems. The only exception to this is the MT purely because of it’s insane speed. LOS agms will still have a place in top tier.

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

There is no reason planes get protected but helicopters aren’t.

Airfields are quite a bit away from the area of the map, so they do not disrupt dogfights that go on around the map.

Heli pads are (by nature) closer to the map.
The only way to solve this without harrassing aircraft is by moving the helis away from the surroundings of the map (which is generally not a good thing for helis, and is what the far heli pad is for), or not add the AAA on the heli pads again.

@UniqueScorpions

I’m taking AI Gepard or equivalent.

Maybe, but again, same issues (albeit less extreme than Airfield AA).
And would generally not be that effective, if you’re trying to protect helicopters from jets.

The way SRB and Custom Battles protect aircraft / helicopters on their airfield / helipad is that if you J out (without any damage), you are immune to any form of damage until you spawn back in.
I’d say this technically helps helicopters from aircraft, and eleminates the issue of aircraft getting harrassed by AI SPAA despite just being near the area, but is extremely scummy if exploited.

[UniqueScorpions]

Dogfights ? Last time I checked GRB was for tanks. Not dogfights.

GOOD SCREW PLANE DOMINANCE, I am so f**king sick of getting bombed regardless of BR. I just played a match where an m18 got 1 kill, hopped into an F4U and then got 8 more ground kills, and 2 aircraft kills.

CAS in terms of planes is unbelievably BROKEN I AM SO FED UP WITH PEOPLE SAYING ITS NOT. This kinda crap makes me want to quit WT for good.

At least helis are LEAGUES easier to kill. All a plane has to do is a quick turn and you avoid 90% of aams. Unless they’re plane launched.

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

Dogfights ? Last time I checked GRB was for tanks. Not dogfights.

GRB is combined arms, focusing more on Ground but facilitates both air and ground combat.
I prefer that over what would be just WOT with better damage models.

I understand that CAS can be frustrating, and so I believe having the option to queue in for CAS-free lobbies would be an interesting addition - and definitely helps if you don’t have an aircraft of your own or SPAA to farm them with.

@UniqueScorpions

CAS in terms of planes is unbelievably BROKEN I AM SO FED UP WITH PEOPLE SAYING ITS NOT.

Depends on the BR I’d say.
Most Low Tier BRs (1.0-6.7) have fairly decent SPAA (Skink, Wirbelwind, ZSD63/PG87) and some broken SPAA (Coelian, Ostwind II), as well as fairly decent CAS aircraft (P-47D, Yak-9UT, T18B, Do 335, Pe-8 / Lancaster) and some broken CAS (Yak-9K, Tu-2S).

Most Mid Tier BRs (7.0-10.0) have much more potent SPAA compared to CAS (Gepard / Gepard 1A2, ZSU-23-4M2, PGZ09, ZSU-37-2), especially the M247 and Imp Chaparral.
They also have very potent CAS, but can struggle to kill AA / Air if not really careful (Scimitar, Sea Vixen, SAAB-105G, Ayit, Alpha Jet, F-84G-21, SK-60B, A-4B).

Top tier (10.3-12.7) has some of the biggest difference in capabilities between AA and Aircraft.
You have some really good SPAA (Like Strela, Type 81, Pantsir, 2S6,), but the CAS is much more difficult to kill, especially in an uptier.
The Pantsir (12.0) can see the AMX A-1A (11.0), which the AMX has no chance of killing.
On the other hand, the Pantsir can see the Eurofighter and Rafale (12.7s), which the Pantsir has near to no possiblity of defeating.
Those Top Tier aircraft can also fight other air, which makes them invulnerable if played correctly.

Top Tier needs the most decompression (in my opinion), especially by decompressing the AIR BRs for GRB, as well as the 7.0-9.7 range for ground vehicles (but you can only correctly decompress that area if every BR above it decompresses too.

[UniqueScorpions]

Lmao. Okay.

@rainy2000

@UniqueScorpions

Dogfights ? Last time I checked GRB was for tanks. Not dogfights.

GRB is combined arms, focusing more on Ground but facilitates both air and ground combat.
I prefer that over what would be just WOT with better damage models.

I understand that CAS can be frustrating, and so I believe having the option to queue in for CAS-free lobbies would be an interesting addition - and definitely helps if you don’t have an aircraft of your own or SPAA to farm them with.

@UniqueScorpions

CAS
in terms of planes is unbelievably BROKEN I AM SO FED UP WITH PEOPLE SAYING ITS NOT.

Depends on the BR I’d say.
and some broken CAS (Yak-9K, Tu-2S).

Let’s skip the A-1H, A-2D, (pretty much a lot of USA aircraft, etc etc).
Shows a pretty odd narrative when you list only Russian air craft as broken.
Also, how is the TU-2S broken? The 1000kg bombs are worthless. Just take 500s.

And I do believe some cas elements should be necessary but they have to be kept in checks for balance sake. Therefore, there should only be:
1 fighter
1 strike fighter / bomber
And 2 helicopters allowed at any point in the sky per team.
That is 1/4th of a team which is still usable by far.

Again, odd you don’t list the Adats, or the Swedish spaa as being good. Adats is an anti tank king.

As far as decompression, the planes are already what, 12.7, 13.0?
They need to add passive spaa, like the Gepard to hold the rear (heli pads technically) as that’s how a realistic battle would occur, advancing troops would be covered by spaa within a decent range.

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions

Let’s skip the A-1H, A-2D, (pretty much a lot of USA aircraft, etc etc).

Sure, I could’ve included them.

@UniqueScorpions

Shows a pretty odd narrative when you list only Russian air craft as broken.

No, not really?
Do you see only Russian Vehicles in Mid Tier or Top Tier?
Why did I not spend the time to include the Su-34 or Su-39 if I were so keen on saying Russian aircraft are broken?
I wonder why you may think that…

@UniqueScorpions

Also, how is the TU-2S broken? The 1000kg bombs are worthless. Just take 500s.

How are they worthless?
They are incredible at taking out SPAA at far ranges, and then you can bomb the tanks with the 4x 250kg bombs.
The flight model, the rear gunners, and the forward armaments are also great, especially for just 5.3.

@UniqueScorpions

And I do believe some cas elements should be necessary but they have to be kept in checks for balance sake. Therefore, there should only be:
1 fighter
1 strike fighter / bomber
And 2 helicopters allowed at any point in the sky per team.
That is 1/4th of a team which is still usable by far.

I can see that.

@UniqueScorpions

Again, odd you don’t list the Adats, or the Swedish spaa as being good. Adats is an anti tank king.

ITO is decent, don’t get me wrong, but then you realise that the Pantsir is just better, and is at the same BR.
ADATS is an anti-tank king sure, but I am talking about SPAA duty, not anti-tank duty.
It’s good at taking out helicopters, but they can even struggle against things like Su-25T / Su-39.

@UniqueScorpions

As far as decompression, the planes are already what, 12.7, 13.0?

12.7, which is not enough.

@UniqueScorpions

They need to add passive spaa, like the Gepard to hold the rear (heli pads technically) as that’s how a realistic battle would occur, advancing troops would be covered by spaa within a decent range.

Maybe.

[MotorolaCRO]

@rainy2000

Most Mid Tier BRs (7.0-10.0) have much more potent SPAA compared to CAS (Gepard / Gepard 1A2, ZSU-23-4M2, PGZ09, ZSU-37-2), especially the M247 and Imp Chaparral.
They also have very potent CAS, but can struggle to kill AA / Air if not really careful (Scimitar, Sea Vixen, SAAB-105G, Ayit, Alpha Jet, F-84G-21, SK-60B, A-4B).

Most SPAAGs (not including M247 and PGZ) can be countered by missiles like Nords.
Stingers are quite nice against stalling or afk targets, but against something with TV bombs/missiles they don’t stand much of a chance.

@rainy2000

Why did I not spend the time to include the Su-34 or Su-39 if I were so keen on saying Russian aircraft are broken?

I get the Su-34, but why Su-39 ?

@rainy2000

ITO is decent, don’t get me wrong, but then you realise that the Pantsir is just better, and is at the same BR.

ITO is definitely the best of the rest as it was the best AA until Pantsir showed up.

[UniqueScorpions]

Lmao pulled my stats, but didn’t bother to look at recent games.

I stopped playing Russia for the most part, I’ve mainly been playing Italy or France.

But no, based off of your comments previously it’s kinda odd you only pointed out Russian aircraft.

I could also bring up the A-10C, A-4E, etc
Or the Rafael, EF2000, etc etc.

There’s many good or broken aircraft across all the nations in game. Bar Italy pretty much.

Lastly, the 1000kg bombs for me, even with direct hits are super buggy and never do damage, it’s the bomb itself, so I started to use the 500s and had a much better time.

[RavenGuardMarine]

@Commodus6504

It feels like half the Russian or American team consists of jets that are constantly circling over the helifields.

Of course we(all nations, not just US/RU) are it’s my job as a CAS/CAP player, to hit the ground and keep the sky clear. Helicopters, of the FNF type can only reasonably be targeted by a jet.

They can be harassed and targeted by AA in terms of SACLOS helis, but AA is of no real concern to a FNF heli. Which puts that jobs squarely on the jets plate. If we let you sit, you can easily flop the field to your advantage.

Especially since gaijin refuses to make rotors return radar hits you can target helis effectively from a distance like reality, it leaves one course of action. Constant passes over the Pad with Mk1 eyeballs to see if you’re there.

@UniqueScorpions

Again, odd you don’t list the Adats, or the Swedish spaa as being good. Adats is an anti tank king.

If you’re spawn trapped, sure.

[HondaCivici]

@MotorolaCRO

I get the Su-34, but why Su-39 ?

If there were SPAA that are like the 2S6 at 11.0ish, it wouldn’t be much of an issue. Because there isn’t, it can easily cause havoc.

This doesn’t mean it’s useless in uptiers. The Kh-29TE are extremely good at taking out ADATS, ITOs, Flakrad, etc.

[MotorolaCRO]

@HondaCivici

If there were SPAA that are like the 2S6 at 11.0ish, it wouldn’t be much of an issue. Because there isn’t, it can easily cause havoc.

With 29TEs it’s safe to assume Su-39 will stay at 5km+ from the battlefield and at those distances Osa is pretty much on par with 2S6, so I’d say other nations have some chances to fight this thing.

[HondaCivici]

@MotorolaCRO

Su-39 will stay at 5km+

that’s the thing, they don’t. It can be fired 10km+ and hit targets with ease. The OSA may be able to intercept (that’s if they react in time) the KH-29TE but it cannot take out the Su-39 at those ranges.