I mean, it still requires a little bit of skill in simulator helicopters, but it’s super fun and easy, too easy for a first spawn, but, as in real life, enemies can launch a heli at the beginning of a battle or partway through it, or to clean up the leftovers. I mean, easy counter to it is SPAA first spawn, which depending on your SPAA, could have anti-tank ammo, like the Oto-matic, is a insanely good SPAA for sim matches.
That’s how counters work. If I want to play CAS and the enemy has SPAA and fighters, I don’t go to the forums and cry about it, I spawn a fighter/tank instead.
You don’t even play SB to begin with.
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So Winrate ratio of players is pure luck, this look like Trump news.
On topic main problem Gaijin is absent and refuse to move heli spawn link to their spawnweapons.
Rocket choppers weapons = 2km spawn.
Basics missilles (range 2.5 km range) = 4-5 km spawn
Medium missiles (range around 4 km)= 6-8 km spawn
Long range missiles ( 7km+) = 12-14 km.
at 200km/h choppers fly at 18sec/ km
worst case hellfire carrier got 126 seconde to get at 7km fire range. + time to taking altitude to see targets (20 sec).
Not a torture.
126 sec + time to travel of the missiles you got all the time to hide your tank.
Best case for choppers (ka 52) 36 sec to go to range + time of travel (16 sec at max speed, not normal speed)+ taking altitude (20 sec)…
Small change move helipads had third helipads… That’s all but nothing is done since 5 years.
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Exact same logic applies to RB…
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That depends. As an Oswind I can do against fighters and light bombers everything esp in an equal game situation (so unknown positions from the start and no number advantage etc). And for heavy bombers there is cap.
Yes, the helis introduce a massive shift away from the aa, but that is again, a known issue.
But we play in teams, so it is about if the team is better than the other time deciding the win. And then teamwork elements are significant.
and because they work to make their team win. Yes, not as much, as would be good, but prioritizing the strongest enemies, enemies attaking friendlies etc is one of them. So the good player doesn’t kill the 2 tanks with their fighter, but if neccesary dumps the bombs and kills the enemie air, to rearm and then get the 2 ground kills later, while preventing like 4 to 8 friendlies being killed by the enemy planes.
you can, but you will have to face the consequences. Namely dying
It doesn’t as You have fixed line-ups. Go to RB section ;).
But You won’t be able to do the same against high altitude bombers. Thus SPAA are lacking.
They are not important as team is made on random with people who have different set of goals and view on how they want to play a game.
But it is not the team who is winning but a single player.
So You can’t.
The only argument You have is that if You want to use tanks, You need to be lucky in order to have team allowing You that.
That is not a proper argument to begin with.
Then this topic is about helis and as such, AA are not effective against helis.
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no, I wrote that every player is responsable for how they act. If they help the team (like by spawning AA), or don’t.
See:
I agree with your proposition you made below.
I’m not sure these guys saying spawn an spaa or its ok for the heli to spawn kill 5 of your players even legitemately play tanks in top tier SB… because a normal person would not have a single argument againts removing helicopters from SB, if you had experienced what Im talking about.
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Let them be, You can check their profile and see with who You are discussing things.
Helis were and always will be a problem for Ground SB. In top tier, even planes with guided weaponary can become a problem, but not as big as helis.
Some still haven’t met 4ppl squads in Ka-5x destroying all SPAAs/Tanks in first minutes of the game.
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no, therefore combat air control (cap) exists.
but those random people together decide if they are better than the other set of random players. You alone can make teamwork things and help your team (like by doing cap and shooting the pe8 wanting to kill 8 friendlies). And that goes for every random person inside the team. If you shift the teamplay to the others, they shift it back to you, noone does it, and you probably loose, bc one person or so in the other team does help his team win.
This is the single player doing teamwork. And that single player will loose, if more than one enemy single player is doing teamwork. So the more teamwork actions are done, the more likely you’ll win.
only, if the team doesn’t have AA/CAP. If your team does, then you can.
And this is a proper argument. Like I wrote, there rules in this game, if you don’t follow them, you are at a disadvantage. The argument is, that it is fine and good not to be able to play everything in every situation effectively. If you want that, go dream, but this is not how games work.
Yes, and then you wrote:
Welcome to War Thunder, but playing a tank is not always the best thing.
But we were talking about SPAA. Stay on topic.
Single player can’t make a decision for the entire team.
Still You don’t understand that there are players wanting to play tanks instead of SPAA/Air.
If one player is skilled enough, he can win against the entire team (Done it already ;))
It is not.
Your argument is based on luck of being placed with proper players.
So You agree that SPAA are not effective against helis? Good.
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I think they should be rebalanced, not removed, since removing them won’t get the game further, only backwards. And I think it is the best approach to develop things forwards, not backwards. Even though yes, some stuff was better years ago.
It is more a workaround than a solution. Same as making a tank-only mode, others suggested in air-rb.
The fact is, that good teamwork can get you very far, including having less issues with helis. So not working on that as a player, is actively hurting your chance to win.
I am not saying, that a Flarakrad is fair and balanced against a KA52, or that 4 helis against 1 aa is, but that it helps, having a few aa’s over not having any. And if you don’t refuse to do something against those helis breaking many matches, then you are imo partially at fault, since you could do something against them. You could get in a plane and try to shoot them down from the air, or get in an AA to shoot them down from the ground. Or spawn yourself a heli and be quicker in destroying the enemy team, as is the other way around the case (worst solution imo).
One of my arguments is exactly this, killing the helis/bombers that can easily kill multiple friendlies, instead of trying to kill the tanks, with a tank, wich is more symetrical and therefore isn’t stopping those 5 to 8 kills, but only 1 to 4.
I hope my point came across better.
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yes, and spaa are not exclusively the counter to helis. So we have to look at the whole picture/keep that whole picture in mind, and not hyperfocus on one single thing.
yes, but everyone makes decitions that influence the entire team and that combined over the whole team is the important bit, which yes is hard to grasp and mostly in random battles out of control,
Yes, and if the quota is right, you can, but it isn’t always the case. And then you have to deal with the consequences. You don’t get always the thing you want. This goes for life, but also in War Thunder.
I want more avionics modelled, but still they aren’t. I understand those players, bc we all are basically those players. Wanting to play something, that depends on the team. Like I myself want to drive the Maus in sim, but sometimes I can’t and have to take the Coelian, to shoot down the su6 or whatever bombing the tanks.
yes, and one skill is teamwork. Also I doubt that you can 1 vs 16, if any competent players are in the 16. Just have 2 competent planes with bombs and the rest just spotting you.
Yes, one person can carry a team, but this is different from doing all the work yourself ;) I’ve done it myself.
Also, if any similary good player on the other side exists, then you are countered and again rely on your team.
no, it is that you have to play together with your team, keep them alive, feed them kills etc.
I’ve written now 3 times here, that your own actions influence the whole team.
if everyone plays perfectly: yes, but most don’t. And the mm etc doesn’t care about the vehicles or good players, but the average (bad) player, when it comes to balancing. One major flaw, I regularly complain about, but different topic.
But we were discussing SPAA not the whole picture to begin with.
One player can win the game with or without the team.
So again, pure luck.
Again, teamwork doesn’t work in random teams.
You can doubt it, but I have already done it couple of times.
If one wants to use tanks he needs luck to be put in a team that allows him to do so, this is Your argument.
So Winrate ratio of players is pure luck, this look like Trump news.
It was more for ULQ
but the whole picture isn’t less relevant bc of this. Just that this is the intended starting point of the discussion.
one single case is never statistically important.
It is about lots of cases.
cry about it. The world doesn’t revolve about your experience in some online game. If you call it luck, then so be it. But you have to deal with it.
it does. By single people doing things for the team.
And I have always won in a 16 vs 1 scenario. So there is no point.
okay, you want to say, that it depends on luck, what vehicle you can play? If you assume that teams are purely random (which they aren’t) then yes.
But you have to deal with it.
The possibilites are:
-play a tank and die
-play AA and win
okay, then respond to him, please. :)
I assumed, you said, that I mean, that the winrate of players is based on pure luck.
If the discussion is about SPAA then we stick to SPAA.
It is not about my experience but Your argument that resolves around luck.
If one player is doing things, it is not teamwork.
So as I said, if one wants to use tanks he needs to be lucky in order to do it. Quite laughable.