you want to play in a team? Play a team game. And the team comes first, then the indivdual. If you constantly want to get bombed and cry over cas, do it, but if you want to win, kill the cas.
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Those BRs still exist. Top tier is always going to be the most P2W (broken) part of WT.
The issue is not the CAS itself, but rather CAS that can shoot straight into the spawn from the opening minute of the game. The solution has been proposed countless times:
However, it must be clear now that Gaijin prefer the current - broken AF - system, to this obvious solution which not even Heli mains object to.
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This is a PVP game, resorting to ‘team’ argument is laughable.
You got put in random team with random people, You should’t be forced to play something You don’t want to.
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this is a team pvp game. Not a battle royal or something. And if you don’t want to play a team game, don’t play the team game. Do duels and stuff
This is not a team game and You can find it in how points are distributed
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and still it is one team vs another team…
Yes we need a better point system, but a bad progression system doesn’t change the game cathegory
yes, an I am completely in for removing the close heli spawn and let the helis start their engines first, like what was written there:
You are put in random team with random people who mostly have their own goal they want to accomplish.
As said, trying to use ‘muh team game’ argument is as laughable as telling a tank player that he should not play it if he wants to play tanks.
Not to mention that SPAA are not an effective counter to air, especially against helis or orbital strikes.
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yes, and within those random people teamwork should work. It doesn’t, I know, but the tools are there.
Also you can get squadmates.
It is not a tank game. It is a ground mode, and that includes AA. And if everyone doesn’t want to play AA, then have fun dying. I know, the mm could be better, but isn’t. Same as the point system etc, not encouraging teamplay enough.
Also AA is highly effective below 10.0. You just have to learn it, like any other vehicle.
I agree, that we need SAM-sites etc for toptier, but besides that AA is good enough (as an AA and CAS player myself). But there is skill involved, just many people not wanting to learn that skill and then blaming op cas, which in most cases, it isn’t, results in people being on average bad in AA-vehicles, which results in some of them even being under br-ed (same with US-props), like the Ostwind.
Yes, the firerate isn’t amazing, but it is accurate and with practice you can hit planes far above 5.0. It just stats to struggle against jets.
And the problem for top-tier is well known
Teamwork doesn’t work, otherwise we would not be talking.
Playing in a squad should not be required.
It is not a tank game but it doesn’t mean that You shouldn’t be able to use it.
AA below 10.0 are not efffective.
We can test it out, I will use BO 105 B-2 and You can choose from ZSU-23-4/PGZ09 and WZ305 (line up from ground SB).
I would love to see how You deal with PE-8/Lancaster at high altitude ;). I have played with and against it and if an air player just doesn’t fly in a straight line, You have no chance against it.
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Therefore “should”, not “does”.
agreed, but it is something that improves the sitution rn, that you can influence much more directly than changing a game, that traditionally has issues listening to the playerbase.
You are able to use it, if and only if you work in a team. Be it by chance, or by design.
this is one case, assuming both players play pefectly (namely the heli staying out of range, while knowing where the enemy is). The thing is most don’t play that good, and then the heli is in range. Also there is cap, not only aa. Also all the BMP’s/2s38’s are against you, not only the one AA, but like 5 kinda AA’s as
well.
Most people fly in a straight line, and then there is still CAP. This isn’t a simple onedimensional battle. It is complex, where tactics can work. It’s a shame that is is most often random and not planned, but it isn’t a series of 1 v 1’s. If it is, then your teamwork failed and you should loose.
Then, Gaijin is doing this game more about one player than it is doing it about team.
But we should focus on single player perspective.
But if Your team made on random consits of people wanting to play just tanks it doesn’t work. This is why this argument goes to “want to play tanks? Don’t play them then!”
2S38 is not in this line-up. BMPs can be dealt with eaisly.
Not to mention that You were making an argument about AA not about all things in game so please stick to it ;).
- Most people crash, should we talk about it too?
- We were talking about SPAA not air itself in first place. Now people who want to play tanks should use air instead?
So it is just a pure luck when it comes if You win or lose, lmao.
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yes, and this is trivial.
no, since we play in teams, and not having solo-duels.
Then you as a team failed being team. And then you get punished, which is good, since this forces teamplay. Not all tactics are good, and only having tanks is one of those bad tactics. Yes, the mm and the reward system failded, but again, this is obvious and previusly aknowleged. So nothing new.
I am making an argument of this being a teamgame and AA generally being quite good.
yes, most people are bad at the game, therefore I am for an elo-system/skill based mm.
Only partially. You control your own actions, and if that means playing aa, to get the W, then it is also on you, if you don’t play aa/cap and loose because of it. If that means killing the enemy bomber, instead of killing 2 groundtargets yourself, then it is on you, for not protecting the 5 people that get killed by the bomber (and Gaijin giving you less stuff consistently if you go for enemy planes, than if you go for a few tanks; Therefore the whole progession system is making the gameplay worse).
It is not trivial.
If it was, the we would see more random people working as team.
Sorry but team consists of single players. If You are just going to go with ‘MUH TEAM’ then there is no point in discussing anything as the answear will be always ‘MUH TEAM’.
lmao.
People should be able to play what they want.
In most scenarios AA is not quite good.
So first implement it and then make an argument about the team ;).
Love that You left out the comment about AA as I have proved that it is not as You have described.
Nope. Saying that the answear is team in a game where teams are made on random is just saying that luck is what lets You win as it puts You in proper team to begin with.
You’re more than welcome to play a tank against CAS. Just stop whining when you get killed by your hard counter.
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Something being trivially objectively doesn’t mean it is easy to understand for majority of the playerbase.
Like many things in maths is trivial, but you first have to learn the topic.
but those single players, play not a 1 vs 1, or a 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 … but in a 16 vs 16 or 10 vs 10. And that makes you part of a team by defintion.
Again, teamwork should be rewarded more, so that for the single player it is more obvious that working in a team is good, but this is not the point of this discussion.
they can and get rewarded or punished accordingl. If you want to fly cap, when there are no planes, then fine. If you want to play aa, if there are no planes, then fine, you get no points.
This game has a set of rules that result from the game mechanics etc. If you follow them you get rewarded, if not, you don’t.
Like I could get more kills when playing tanks by playing more agressively, but I don’t, because I don’t like it, so I perform worse, get less kills etc. And that is fine for me. I can play what I want, and everyone can, but you have to live with the consequences.
As said:
Want to play a tank? Play something else!
They can’t and don’t.
This is why this topic was created in first place.
okay, elaborate. Why isn’t it good in most scenarios? Because the players are bad using it?
This game is still online, last time I checked, so we have to work with what we have.
I did, but okay
there is skill in being able to communicate with the team and adapt your playstile accordingly.
Yes, random teams definitely don’t help, but it doesn’t make the outcome of a match random. Lots of playerstats show this, where their winrate differs statistically significantly from what would be expected from randomized matches and actions.
they can. No cap and no aa = dead lost
cap and aa = having a chance against the enemy or even winning. Depends on loads of factors. On 16 to 32 and above players and their sitution etc
Because players using it can’t do anything to vechicles they are fighting.
I would love to do the test with a heli that I have described.
And this is why team argument is not good one, we don’t have a skill-based matchmaking
W/R differs because a single player mostly do all the work. Not to mention that W/R of nations having overpowered air in certain line-ups is much higher than in other nations.
Again, a player who wants to play a tank can’t.