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even if its just a bit foggy or whatever ADATS wont be able to lock anything while air to ground IR seekers sometimes still can lock in track and can pretty much always lock in point mode
also i kinda find it weird that Pantsir S1 has gen 2 thermal but the 2S6M1 has gen 3
It’s so you can watch your missile fall out of the air after 4-5km in high fidelity.
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Best 5mm/10mm armor that deflects damage from 9 kg of HE tank shells and 1770 kg he from bombs …goes to …you guessed it …Russia
Delete Pantsir so CAS can be even more OP? No.
Win rate is a skill metric.
@TheAceOfAces
Kh-29s and AGM-65Bs are trash at top BR, they’ve never been good due to the existence of SPAA with range longer than 8km.
@jspene
They said CAS is OP and assured us of new SPAA being added this year.
Mirage 2000 D RMV and Su-34 were added after they discovered CAS is OP.
@Der_Zerkquetscher
The S-13 nerf was over 3 years ago. Contrails were added years after the nerf, and contrails did nothing. CAS was and is OP because it out-ranges SPAA, not that it couldn’t be seen.
@GNDM_Panzer Dude, stop it. CAS is OP.
The fact your posts claim Su-34, F-15I, etc are bad due to Pantsir is proof enough…
Pantsir is bad against top CAS, this is a known fact to EVERYONE outside Russia’s borders.
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it was op or very strong back then because before the fox 3 addition and the contrails it just had free reign over the whole area above the battlefield at every altitude because once made it to high alt above the battlefield they would have all the time to line up shots anywhere being above the radar envelope. now theres the pantsir and a ceiling of around 5000 m which doesnt give you a lot of time to look for the important targets or from multikills top down while being in constant danger of something seeing you at any moment or a fox 3 coming your way. back in the time all you were doing was staring at the sky playing spaa(even harder because i think it didnt have wing vortices so you wouldnt even see them turning and they could just circle around until they wanted to strike), spamming your radar lock button and suddenly explode.
Obviously now that has changes as you said to “just outrange spaa” and never put yourself in any danger from the ground.
My point was that at any moment i can remember in the history of wt, cas in top tier or high tier was always a step ahead if flown correctly and always had a very cancerous way of playing it (whether it was the 7 kill ka50 rushes with helis that get “destroyed” but then theyre actually not, hovering above your spawn and even spaa gun elevation, mig 27s and whatnot just lurking in space above the battlefield or planes just outranging any counter on the ground. There wasnt a single time i remember where it felt actually balanced between spaa and cas
No SPAA has ever been OP in the history of War Thunder.
Pantsir was out-ranged by CAS since 2022, and even when Pantsir was fixed in October 2024, new weapons were added that still out-range it.
There is no ceiling of 5000 meters, you climb to 8000 meters where you’re safe from Pantsirs.
Contrails do nothing other than make SPAA get depressed they can’t hit you, the meta has always been out-range SPAA.
Helicopters only out-ranged SPAA for a couple months at most, though Ka-50 was added after ADATS.
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Back then you didnt need to outrange them because the max radar elev angle any spaa had was 20°. nothing could rly outrange vt1 slingers if they played with a brain (sit next to building, if high elevation plane shoots into your direction and you dont wanna shoot his maverick just smoke, move or move behidn the building) you could just fly around above them and they would never find you. yeah cool now you can fly around at 10000m thats cool and all, but every enemy plane will instantly know where you are. it also takes you quite some time to get up there. Theres probably a reason for why ive never seen footage of any of the best top tier cas playing ccs using that technique? maybe youre more or less safe from spaa like this, but the guy that really wants to slap has killed 7 ppl and has already rearmed till you got up to alt and half your ordinance off
Search radar elevation didn’t matter cause you’d show up on radar instantly on spawn anyway and they’d track you.
All top SPAA have warningless tracking.
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thats why u stayed at range and fast till they shoot at something else if you didnt make it up there before they spawned spaa. once they shot at the heli or whatever youre at 7k above their heads and they completely lost you and wouldnt ever find you again. now with the contrails you cant really do that anymore, unless as you say 10k m and rly fast. But before the contrails that wasnt nevessary and equally cancerous, that was my point. you could just circle the battlefield being completely invisible at 800kph even during hard turns. made for really fun gameplay just staring at the sky for ages while you whole team exploded around you.
Kinda similar to the time of the absolutely awesome and necessary introduction of strike drones that spawned right above the battlefield upon introduction, above every spaas radar envelope. that was a classic gaijinner if ive ever seen one.
Those things happen for a reason, more often than not the player is the significant factor in all of that.
I dont understand u want point and click gameplay with spaa?
Spaa shouldnt be so strong and skilless like pantsir against nato cas that can cost up to more then 900sp
Top tier spaas are good against non russia cas
Two decent flarak or ito can contest the skies with no issue against f15e,typhoon,f18 etc and dont forget that spaa cost 70 sp
Imo Before kh38 there wasent a problem with cas and im saying this as a tank main
Sure we need pantsir equivlants but if we get thos we should get kh38 equvlants too or cas will get shyt on by all the “pantsirs”
We also need an increase of rewards to spaa players
I’m waiting for the BR for the Su-30 and Su-34 to be increased to 13.0, but for now I’m just going through the marathon on the F-15C.
Just don’t play on top tier against USSR now.
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Its not rly gonna help to top tier exept it would make them cost a bit more sp
12.0 will still suffer from them what we rly need its good spaa
No they aren’t and never were.
They can’t contest anything as they are being outranged, especially the flarak with only two ready missiles.
Saying this as a tank main with “vast” experience with AAs.
Bigger rewards won’t help until you give players AAs that actually aren’t getting outranged.
They simply are
Outranged only by russian cas (and hammers but thos are very slow and ez to intercept) all other cas are either max 10km lock like agm 65 or laser guided
I play some spaas too and flarak is great when its not against russian cas
Its not insted we need both i said in the same paragraph we need better spaa too
They are outranged by every IR CAS as they share the same seeker, which is why 65D can also lock from 12-13km.
You shooting down ordnance doesn’t really help you at killing CAS.
No it simply isn’t as it only has two missiles ready.
That is not true the seeker can berly lock from 10 km amd even if u right it doesnt have the eneregy to go kver 10 km
No but it saves u so the rafale can lunch how many hammers it want its not gonna kill u
Yea 2 strong missiles and u have all the time in the world to shoot the maveriks that needs like 30 sec flight time to reach u
CAS out-ranges Pantsir. Pantsir can’t frag a CAS player playing correctly let alone getting within range and dodging.
We do not need Pantsir equivalents, we need SPYDER equivalents.
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