your arguement conflict with what you said to me about adding things like SPYDER would change things as they can actually reach the target and detect them before CAS can reach the battlefield
the Pantsir missile is nerfed because the community rant about it outclassing every other spaa ingame
Gaijin could have add similar system to other nations but they nerf SACLOS munnition as a whole
Gaijin nerf SACLOS as a WHOLE, not just Pantsir
you should google the pantsir and saclos nerf
saclos was iffy even before pantsir but now its more iff
you have to acknowledge it
No, the Pantsir missile has never been nerfed.
Also Gaijin fixed SACLOS missiles as they were over-performing in maneuverability; Pantsir and 2S6 were just the first ones.
SACLOS missiles are currently the most accurate they’ve ever been in the history of War Thunder because of the physics changes.
When Gaijin gets around to fixing other systems that were “artificially buffed” according to some peoples’ terminology, they’ll be “worse” than they were before.
Also I mention SPYDER because it adds the range necessary to engage IR AGM carriers, something all other SPAA currently lack.
There is no conflict with that statement, that statement is pure consistency.
i really have nothing to say because if you just search up SACLOS nerf the entire wt reddit rant about how they nerf saclos
and no they arent over performing, SACLOS has quite good manuverability(also depend on what SACLOS it is) if anything its Gaijin devs incompetence in researching and modeling thinks that it overperformed
and you believe them smh
!
SPYDER would obviously rain hell on CAS because of the range
SPYDER MR has a range of 35km and use Python 5 IR missile and Derby ARHM which has 50% more effective range than Pantsir and has extremely high manuverability missile which would make Pantsir look like a joke and thats why GAIJIN would not add it, because again they would need to make new model for other nation and it would continue a vicious cycle of unbalance > trying to balance > its fixed > oh wait we fked up its unbalance again and repeat
I’m glad we agree that SACLOS missiles are currently not over-performing.
However, that’s not what I said, I said they were, which they were; SACLOS missiles could pull 80+Gs… I wish I was joking.
Of course the correction came before sensor mode was completed, so the 80Gs is an estimate based on turning over time and speed based on time to target.
Also Pantsir and 2S6 were the “first” SACLOS missiles “nerfed”, they literally warned us before the update of Pantsir that ALL SACLOS missiles would be corrected to be more like real life; it was a surprise to no one that read the forum and news pages.
And it’s not me saying that they were over-performing, it was people that know physics, and I merely read their proof, looked at footage IRL and tested in-game, and came to the same conclusion.
No SACLOS AGM is capable of pulling 60Gs IRL let alone 80+Gs.
SPYDER has a 25km range using Python 5s, not 35km.
Pantsir’s range is also 18km against helicopters, which is… almost half of 35km.
Pantsir’s missile isn’t the most maneuverable currently as that goes to ADATS, ITO, and TOR-M1.
Pantsir is already underpowered compared to the CAS present.
I’m glad you agree with me that we need balance, but your other arguments don’t agree with your own sentiment.
why do you think it takes almost 3 years and 3 years now gaijin havent have any new SAM for the rest of the nation?
Introduce the PANTSIR problem:
- Other nations differnet doctrine and ideology in air defense
- There are no Pantsir equivalent that has integrated radar, mobile, has cannon(irrelevant unless self defense) has similar range missile, can effectively intercept munnition
- Adding a better spaa than Pantsir would result in RU players rant because(muh we need new equivalent spaa muh) which mean that Gaijin would need to make another SPAA for RU again and knowing Gaijin they would fked up balancing again
Cause CAS players kept dying to ADATS, ITO-90M, and Pantsir; that is why. The recorded stats showed CAS was not OP, despite us knowing it was OP.
I NEVER died to a single Pantsir while doing CAS runs [let alone fighter runs that are even easier to not die to SPAA using]. The 2 times I did die, I was a drone in one, and intentionally trying to die in the other.
The reason why I never died to a single Pantsir was I spent 1 - 3 hours in a custom match against a Pantsir to learn the weaknesses; I learned… on the dev server.
I shared that knowledge with others over time, some people applied it, others didn’t.
The only reason new SPAA hasn’t been added is because of stats recorded in the servers.
yes its underperforming and should reverse the nerf
that is Gaijin fault for modelling such thing in the first place
SACLOS isnt that level manuverable but the current ingame manuverability isnt good either, still a whole road close to reality
excuse me on that the effective range would be around 25-30km
if Pantsir are underpowered then what does Ito, Flarad, Adats, HQ, OTOMATIC look like?
CAS is a problem as a whole
if they dont want to make tank only mode then they need to balance CAS which they wont because:
Player get kills by CAS > Think CAS is OP > Buy premium > Try to CAS > Fail miserably because no skill > Return to ground > Die to cas again > Cycle continue
YET GAIJIN STILL DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS OP, BECAUSE THEY LOOK AT STATS, WHICH MEAN THAT WE WILL LIKELY NEVER GET NEW SAM, BECAUSE THATS WHAT STAT SAY, IT WOULD NEED TO TAKE ATLEAST A YEAR OR TWO FOR STATISTIC TO HAVE SIGNIFICANT CHANGE
EXACTLY WHY GAIJIN NEED TO CHANGE THEIR WAY BALANCING THINGS
the current CAS is OP but Gaijin wont acknowledge it immediately, because they look at stats and for stats to change significantly it would take a long long time, because not everyone has CAS but everyone acknowledge CAS is OP and for Gaijin to acknowledge it they would need to look at STATS which is pathetic because for STATS to change it needs time and base on the amount of CAS it would need to take 1-2 years for Gaijin to finally: " oi blyat, CAS is ogon’, its nerf
Gaijin already acknowledged that CAS is OP as of last year. It’s literally on the forum, and likely on the website itself.
They’ve been working on SPAA systems going on at least 5 months now.
it takes time for new vehicles to be added.
And no, the Python 5 maximum range is 25km, the effective range would be somewhere between 20 and 25km below 9000 meters altitude.
And no, all you need to do is look at sensor view to see that SACLOS missiles are currently accurate to their real-life counterparts more today than ever before.
Of course, hand movement can’t get peak Gs every time.
Then WHERE THE FUCK IS NEW SPAA???
@MrBombastic8
In development.
There’s also SPAA inbound that will have off-field AI radar.
We know it’s in development, there have been multiple announcements and statements.
So now we wait.
they said 2025, so probably gonna wait for the June update unfortunately
ok i wait i calm down now
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Hopefully the SEAD event is them testing out multi-platform SAM Batteries.
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That’d be neat.
You mean the spaa that couldn’t even elvate it’s missile launcher > 60 degrees? Sure I can see how I might be better when the ADATS can get it’s sigh locked onto it but at the time, the tactic was to be directly over the battlefield and the ADATS had no way of countering that. This is also exluding the fact that it got the classification got switched to TD (almost around 3 years ago) which made spawning in the ADATS significantly harder late game.
What made the vikhrs very good wasn’t it’s 8-10km range. It was it’s speed,agility, accuracy, “IOG” and at the time the ability to do longer interval ripple fire and intercept SAMs. That made them practically untouchable. They reduced it’s agility, removed it’s IOG,reduced the window to ripple fire and reduced the effectiveness at shooting down SAMs. It is still one of the best helicopter in game to this day.
If you read my prior responses, I specifically mentioned that it was good because it had the best situational awareness and missiles that can deal with planes flying in a linear motion but more importantly can deal with agms being fired outside the typical spaa range.
Already explained why this is not the case:
Absolutely not. Gaijin knew very well what would happen. The Pantsir was a hard counter to multiple long range launches of mavericks and other slow munitions. No other spaa had this capabilities. The VT1 slingers had terrible situational awareness.
The SM3 was added a year later after the pantsir. That gave them more than enough data to see that it would be a bad idea.
They should’ve gave all nations better spaa that be comparable to the pantsir if not close to it before adding the Kh-38s.
@HondaCivici
Helicopters can’t get above the 60 degree limit.
Vikhrs were ~20+Gs BTW, today they’re more correct because of “the SACLOS nerf”, AKA fixing SACLOS missiles to be more akin to real life.
I’d sensor view all SACLOS missiles with a hard turn to see their average peak Gs in mouse aim, but that’d take ~2 hours.
Mavericks had better flight characteristics when I used them from 2022 throughout 2024, they’ve been screwed at some stage.
And no, Pantsir equivalent SPAA CAS would still be untouchable.