I would also like to point out that Italy has never purchased Brimstone.
I would like to also point out their mission role is purely air superiority and to my understanding, have never even equiped live air to ground ordnance.
If you have any pictures of an F2000A equiped with a live bomb, or air to ground missile, please share :)
There is a good thread about Italian Eurofighters.
Yeah my initial post I forgot to add it. XD so it is edited.
UwU
Since Gunjob already provided pics I won’t bother, but I can add that It seems like we will be buying Brimstone 3s with our T4s ;)
(the brimstone part roughly translates to: As with the new Spanish Halcon II order of last week, the new Italian EFTs will be equipped with advanced avionics and new armaments (such as Brimstone 3 and Meteor), new sensors and more connectivity.
Uhh, ever since the pantsir has been added the effectiveness of US CAS aircraft has significantly decreased. It was possible to launch mavericks >= 10km and maybe get a kill but now it’s hard to do so when there’s a competent pantsir player.
The only way to defeat pantsir is to do short range pop-up attacks or overwhelm it with multiple planes in the sky (which is not an exclusive benefit for the US)
Even before the F-16C or the pantsir was added, the Mig27 really gave the ADATS a hard time because at the time, it’s missile launcher was limited to 60ish degrees (to whatever cannon’s max elevation).
Now the gbu-39 strat is the only one to actively counteract the pantsir. But it doesn’t garentee a kill. Launching a maverick in conjunction greatly increases it however it can easily be countered with IRST.
The best tactic is to scatter gbu39s, hug the ground and do popup attacks perpendicular to the enemy. It does put you within IR missiles and gun range which is something to keep in mind
It is likely GBU-39 and short range is the tactic now; however from 2022 - most of 2024, that wasn’t necessary cause Pantsir’s missiles were about as consistent as asphalt.
I still stay at high altitude when using fighters cause that’s still the safest place to be against SPAA.
What made the pantsir good is the ability to effectively identify and engage multiple agms. In addition it’s high radar detection range makes it where it’s quite hard to hide from the pantsir unless you’re directly above it.
If you were directly above the battlefield and a pantsir spawns in, then you’ll most likely be not detected, but if you spawn in while there’s a pantsir active, it’ll be very hard for you to go above the pantsir without them noticing.
Being detected means nothing if they can’t resch you though. And before you spout the 18km range, do note that after 13km the missile is barely maneuverable and can only hit people literally being AFK.
Also it may come as a surprise to people but GRB maps are larger outside the AO
As mentioned before, what made the pantsir good was it’s ability to identify and engage multiple agms. That was my main argument. I’ve not even brought up the pantsir’s missile range against other aircraft so stop putting words in my mouth.
Prior to the pantsir, CAS aircraft had the impunity to launch all their agms outside of spaa range. Aircrafts can fly in a straight line and can take their time identifying targets to launch with no worry about being shot at. Not only they have to worry about being targeted, they also have to keep in mind that their agms have a high probability of being intercepted. What good is a cas aircraft if it can’t do it’s main job?
The context of this response is if US had CAS dominance in top tier, my answer is no. Even before the pantsir, the dominance Russia’s cas dominance was more frequent as US SPAA had no proper way to counter it at the time.
i have a question
do you think KH-38MT is “broken”?
I’m sorry but weren’t 1Zs dominating at one point? Fury F-4s (idk if anyone remember this but the 1st edition of bullpup was the closest thing we got for MITL)? Those were top tier. F-16C was literally the best CAS even after the introduction of the Kh-38MT with the Su-25SM3, only because of it’s utility as a multirole, Pantsir was the 1st step in making it hard for CAS in general and only because people still flew straight months after the introduction of the Pantsir
That’s not even counting the space bombers US gets at Mid to high tier (ergo A-6E and Sqd A-4)
There are no good arguments for it, only lying and gaslighting from the IvanBoos. Been going on for years.
Abrams are pretty dogwater themselves, to be frank. Them, the Chally’s, the Leclercs, Type 10s, Arietes - All need serious corrections but Gaijin’s too busy sitting on their asses and doing F all about it. Lazy slobs.
type 10 better than abrams tbh
Yup, you’re right but how long did that last?
The rest you already know what happens. Russian helicopters has been dominated since and only until missile changes, and FnF helis, it made it somewhat bearable but still very good. Keep in mind, to this day any nation that has only SALH agms, are significantly under performing
The F-16C was added after the pantsir. As I’ve said, it completely made any long range launches useless.
The Addition of the Kh38MT made it where russia only had effective long range agms. No other SPAA had the capabilities like the pantsir to this day.
The only one I can agree with you is early maverick/gbu platforms.
But let me ask you this, where are they now? The A4E now has to compete with ir missile, the A6E now has to face the 2S6. the only one aircraft that has merit is the A7D/A-10A early but even then has to face with much better spaa than what it once had to face before.
Counters and new systems have always been added within a reasonable amount of time when US/Nato vehicles are overperforming. The only exception to this is in ARB. For GRB, it’s a much different story.
not to mention when the community said that pantsir was OP when it came out, gaijin instead of giving other nations the equivalent, nerf the manuverablity of SACLOS as a whole
I agree, frankly. Same survivability yet the Type 10 is faster, comparable shell and shorter reload.
So ADATS was better from the start.
Among the first missile changes to Ka-50 which forced it to have an 8km range was before 2020. It had 2ish nerfs before its range was made 8km guaranteed and 10km static, which it could only reach 10km when moving forward at speed for a number of months; today it can reach 10km standing still like it did on first release.
Pantsir didn’t get its missiles fixed in manual aiming mode until ~September 2024, making that F-16C even more untouchable than it is today.
It’s still bugged in auto mode.
I’d say SPAA players peaked in skill around 2022 right before Harrier GR7 was added to ruin everything, and then the powercreep started as CAS players got complacent and died to SPAA for 2 years straight despite being able to out-range all SPAA in the game, leading to stats that would make Gaijin think Hammer and Kh-38MT are fine missiles to add.
Which is another reason why Gaijin thought Kh-38MTs would be fine to add. The myth that Pantsir was OP when it never was.
Also Pantsir came into the game with correct SACLOS physics, it was literally the first nerfed missile in the game.
Abrams get one shot so frequently now its just feel like a slower Type 10 smh
