My M60A1 (AOS)'s sabot seemed to pen it just fine.
Either A) you have terrible aim when fighting it or B) you’ve been facing the endless swarms of prem noobs at 8.3.
You don’t understand the context you have used it, and the directed implication you’ve attacked to it has turned it from a basic word , of saying someone is too inexperienced and will follow others words / believe what they are told.
To insuating that I’m being naive in rejecting your opinion, stated as if your opinion is actually fact, instead of being opinion.
Your use of naive here is essentially saying i dont have enough experience, knowledge and understanding simply because I disagree.
I think it is you who should return to their studies before throwing around words you’ve very little understanding of.
Willingfully dishonest is a simple typo on a mobile whilst responding to the absolute nonsense you are typing.
You actively have ignored time and time again facts provided to you by a plethora of people here.
As well as this at the same time repeating your own opinion as if it changes any of the facts that have been provided disregarding your non backed up opinion.
Your own Kd is not sufficent source/ evidence.
As well as claiming its fast when it isn’t
Or it has armour which is only on one specific part of the turret.
Im not even going to respond to the other slop.
He’s no idea
They’re not comparable at all.
The 279 was nearly untouchable at 8.3 , stab, stronger round, far more.mobile and far better defended.
You’re claims aren’t actively backed up. The list you’ve regurgitated repeatedly doesn’t actively change the negatives that have been listed.
Shoukd t58 move to 8.7,? Yes.
It shouldn’t be 9.0 at all
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Who says the T series are over powered ? 😂 they’re absolutely dog water.
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Literally fought plenty of Obj.279s, and other Soviet tanks that couldn’t kill it. All sorts of non premium tanks, and premium ones.
It’s got trolly armor, no debate
Trying to read the reply be like:
The “English teacher” has very poor grammar
I haven’t ignored you, as much as you say it, the lack of a stabilizer doesn’t mean it’s not 9.0 worthy. I’ve told you time and, time again why it’s 9.0 material.
If you wish to debate, have a point, or some sort of logical pathway. I advise against using grammar you don’t totally understand.
A lot of the same people who say the T58 is fine at 8.3 / 8.7
My claims are backed up, I’m using my own, and stats of others, the winrate heat map, and the stat shark stats, as they won’t be totally accurate like gaijins actual stats, but will be a good representation of most players.
279 wasn’t 8.3 worthy, 8.7 it was still very good, 9.0 seems balanced.
Neither is the T58 balanced at 8.3, 8.7.
Please provide capabilies of other tanks at 8.3/8.7 vs the T58, it has mass advantages over all its peers
The only negative of the T58 is it’s reverse
And it’s lack of stab, poor armour against APFSDS, and bad mobilty. At minimum it should be 8.7, but 9.0 would most likely be too high without decompression, same with the Turm III.
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Poor armor to APFSDS is a bit funny, the collar of the turret, and many bits of the turret will eat early APFSDS. The hull might on occasion.
It’s “lack of a stab” really isn’t that bad due to the oscillated turret. Sure it’s not as good as a stabilizer, but in no way, is it bad or a negative.
I would, any day of the week, take a T58, over a Turm III.
And yes I agree decompression is needed regardless.
But allowing it to bully 7.3s, 7.7s, 8.0s, and 8.3s constantly is unacceptable.
Still much better than yours though, at least he has the stat to back up his claims, you on the other hand…
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I’ve bounced shots from long 88, 17pdr, and that french up gunned M4A4 thing many times. Volumetric being a b**** is nothing new for cast hulls. Even then, the T58 is extremely tame as far as trolley volumetric goes.
Lol 🤣
No you just do not understand a well written response.
Theres the issue, grammatically its sound, you cannot roll around insulting folks expecting them not to challange you on it, i apologise if you cannot read English, maybe not your native tongue or some such issue.
We’ve plural told you that it’s
- not armoured enough.
- not mobile enough
- not stabilised
- lacking shell types
Theres more than just no stabilizer being said, like i previously stated you are objectively ignoring fact because your experience with the vehicle.
Got a source there bud? Any actual evidence to provide or just heresay?
Ztz 59D1
Stabilizer, dart, era ,.laser range finder , more mobile.
Only negative turret traverse.
8.3
8.7 you have the likes of amx32 but specifically brenus, strong dart, thermals, LRF era soaks all the ammos fired by the T58 as well as excellent mobility in comparisson.
8.7 M60 Rise , again era prevents the utilisation of t58 ammo, stab, dart, thermals, and better overall mobility.
Object 140 8.7 now - strong apds can punch through all T58 armour bar specifically turret ring.
Stabilised.
More.mobile.
14.5mm hmg.
Access to more effective ammos.
There’s lists of tanks at 8.7 better than it.
Never mind 9.0
You do realise i do believe it has to move up to 8.7 though right?
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Honestly, I have been having a field day with it. My nuke with the Type 60 included me killing about 4 T-58s. Its a good vehicle, but not overpowered by any means.
Naive is definitely an insult in this context. You’re implying he knows absolutely nothing about something. Its honestly rare to find it used genuinely and innocently. Considering you think that the T58 is overpowered and he says it is not, you’re essentially saying “You are defending it for a unimaginable reason or you don’t know anything.”
And considering you then go on to insult him again,
I’d say it was definitely an insult in that context.
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Exactly 😂
It could do with being 8.7 to be fair, not 9.0 though.
By all definition of the word, and the contextual use. It in fact was used as a way to undermine my opinion or insult my intelligence / knowledge of the subject.
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@Zulizia
I never said the T58 is un-killable but, it lives a lot of penetrating hits, and is a very hard tank to kill, matching the Obj.279 I’m survivability, but with even more lethality bar a stabilizer.
Saying factually he’s a teacher, and he’s a poor one, is a fact, not an insult. It will come off as you read it, but it was not, and still, is not an insult.
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Your response was never well written. You’re talking to someone who passed all English classes with a 3.89 average in English, in college.
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You can plurally (this is the word you were looking for Mr. English teacher) Tell me anything, but it means nothing when it isn’t based in fact.
The forward mobility isn’t bad by any means, most heavy tanks that are very well armored for their brs are generally very slow. The T58 goes 22 mph, Maus (I think) 12.7 mph? The Black Prince is somewhere around the maus. All much lower than the T58 at their brs. -
No stab, no problem.
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No, I don’t have screenshotted evidence, I don’t like to take pictures of sheepole of WT. but I can if you’d like.
It’d be fine at 8.7, I agree. But it is definitely not overpowered by any metric.
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Okay, your point being ? The response was written perfectly fine.
Your English barely sits at a C1 level for written responses.
The fact you have no idea how good or bad of a teacher I am , yet chose to insult me over it shows your caliber.
Especially once you’ve already been told twice by two people that the context in which you used naive was in an insulting manner.
Based on fact, not in it.
So I’ll break it down.
We have is the referal use of the word plural dumby.
I don’t mean the list was pluralised I mean the use of “we’ve” was pluralised to signal that more than one person aka me has responded to you.
We first-person pronoun used to refer to a group of people that includes the speaker or writer. Aka we have.
You again prove you don’t understand written English.
No stab is in fact a problem
…it is what keeps the amx30B2 and brenus at 8.7
He didn’t understand .
That the written form :we’ve, is plural refering to the group of people.
Plural was added to significy the fact it is in fact a group of people.
Not my singular comments.
Then the list in singular form of negatives the tank has.
Im a profesor en titular, which is university level btw so I know I’m a good tutor 😂
Edit as has been said multiple times, by almost everyone the T58 could move to 8.7 and be comfortable, 9.0 would kill it.
Skill issue.
Hell no
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