I don’t get what the obj 906 has to do with this discussion…
But I’ll indulge it:
Obj. 906:
Cons:
Taller
Longer hull
Slower reload rate
Can be machine gunner anywhere.
Pros:
Good pen
Fully stabalized
Great reverse
Slightly faster turret traverse
can float
Char:
Cons:
Not stabalized
Pros:
Smaller
Quieter
Faster reload
Is immune to HMGs frontally, and portions of the side.
I don’t disagree in the fact it should be 7.7
But again, why bring up the obj.906?
I was at college and couldn’t give you the whole run down why the fox is equal to if not better than the xm. And I swear I’m gonna save this post so I have to stop explaining it.
Fox:
Xm800:
Both:
Share 12° or more of gun depression
Are pretty much or are stabalized
Very mobile tanks
Very small tanks
Have a good turret traverse / elevation
therefore, even with gaijin stats saying the fox is over preforming, it should go up in br
The Conquerer shell hasn’t been that bad at all for me, even on terrible angles or terribly volumetric spots. When was the last time you played it? The only thing I’ve noticed as of late that has been consistently bad is the BTR-80’s APDS has been semi consistent to shatter.
T-10A’s stab is good up to 15 mph only. There’s less than a 5 mph difference between the max speed of the conquerer and T-10A meaning in the last 16.1 mph of the T-10As top speed, it cannot use its stabalizer. I don’t think the T-10A is really 7.7 worthy, but it’s not bad enough to be 7.3 either.
APHE is better to have a better chance to 1 tap, but with how many vehicles are highly angled at or slightly above its br, the T-10A simply suffers, as people keep saying, I would say at best it’s a “side grade” to the IS-3 as the T-10A has worse armor while having all the rest of the same characteristics of the IS-3, but with a better reload.
Lets not go there.
by their own standards there are absolutely loads of stuff under BRd.
Leo2k.
2S38.
Bmp2M
Begliets. etc etc etc we could rhyme it off all day.
As it stands the fox being the same BR as the scim is weird for me, I just dont see it performing at 8.0 as it should.
The XM800T IMO is a better light for the purpose it fills , it isnt as niche as the fox having to rely solely on the APDS
In my hundred and so games with it ,its gotten me killed more times than i can count, shooting leo1 hull frontally and it just vanishes.
its actually 8KMPH believe it or not, conq goes 34, T10A goes 42 that is substantially faster.
See i couldnt remember if it was 25 or 15.
More of a sidegrade to the IS4M realistically, its more mobile, lower, worse armour but the same round and faster reload.
IS3 is worse than the T10A i think ive played liek 3 games with IS3 if i even bothered n just went naah
Bruh the XM800T has 20° of depression.
Anything over 12° is plenty good. Thus it doesn’t matter if it’s -24 vs -14 or so.
ill agree to disagree, especially since the fox was one of the easiest vehicles to stock grind Imo.
I am sorry but saying the Bmp-2M is under br’d made me laugh. If it had 440 m/s ATGMs instead of… what, 320? It would be 10.7 worthy. It heavily relies on the auto cannon, which is situational. The ATGMs are good of your brawling, and launch 2-4 at a time. Therefore I do believe with the lack of armor it’s a pretty decently balanced 10.3, especially given the amount I’ve played it, and had to fight tooth and nail to maintain a positive KDr, I would actually say it’s bordering on being bad. But who knows maybe it’s lack of luck or I just can’t be all that effective with it. Which is crazy to think since many other light tanks I’ve been stellar with.
I agree the Leo2k is a bit under br’d same with the 2s38 and begel.
the fox is equal to the xm800, but not the shimitar thus having an 8.0 and 7.7 would be preferred
if you want to watch my recent conquerer games, I haven’t had that problem at all, like I said only in the btr as of late oddly.
21.6 mph vs 26.1 mph aint that big of a difference. If it was like 10 mph it would be decently faster, if it’s 20 mph then it’s far faster.
T-10a’s weak points are easier to hit than the Is-3, it’s turret is also at best 160mms on the sides and rear, they have the same shot. The IS-3 is slightly slower, not by much, the T-10A with an ace crew has 5 sec faster load time, and technically easier to snipe barrel. Less side armor, etc the list goes on. At best, the T-10A is a side grade to the IS-3, the IS-4M I’m pretty sure has far better overall armor. While having again the same gun and shell. 6.7 - 7.7 Russia has the same shell for all its 122mms. I would say btw none of those heavies are survivable.
This just made me realize I should probably put the T-10A at 7.3 on the list
The Ho-Ri prototype and Production count as closed top tanks for the sake of HE overpressure.
TBF you call it ground RB, not Ground Vehicles my guy ;)
Gaijin have purposefully split the BR systems for aircraft in Ground RB for a reason ^^
I would say prob be useful to add, given ground RB is heavily balanced by aircraft stopping people going on rampages/camping spots too or just outright ruining the mode when OP.
That extra 8 degrees is massivr it means it can fire over a hill while fox has to crest more.
The BMP2M for years was touted as the best light tank in the game.
It is still better than most 10.3 lights now, fhe atgm changes last year effected it but and made it not as good.
I was gonna put that in brackets last night but i was extremely tired.
The list goes on and on with other stuff as well but we all know now adays what isnt and is.
T29 for example could pull off 7.3 maybe.
Tiger 2 sla could.be 7.0 easily.
You know if they actually made the scim how it should be , not a slow, cumbersome, unable to turn without dropping all its speed. It would be better than fox at last on par.
The fox IMO shouldn’t be as fast off road , compare it to say type16 or woflpack, or evem amx10c they are 6 and 8 wheeled tanks that would be faster than fox.
Fox i reckon would be fairer at 7.7 if it wasnt so good on snow, (checked it out last night and yeah its rapid af on snow which makes no sense).
It may work now, then youll get a stint where it doesn’t work right, then goes back to working…its what tempromental means with it man.
I love conqueror and have a lineup for it but it does not deserve 8.0.
I see where th3 issues came in here, imperial vs metric.
But t10 can and does maintain a higher speed which for heavies at that br its more cruicial.
Ill respond berrwe whwn im on pc
Edit: ill respond better when im on pc.
The IS4M is far more armoured than every other 7.7 bar maus i believe, E100 i dont really count as it essentially is never seen.
The is3 does not get B417D is it onlyB?
The T10 armour for me has been pretty sufficient but as i said i last used it a while ago now.
6.7 russian tanks dont have the same shell as the 7.7s at all , even IS6 had a worse round until it went to 7.7 and got thE D variant…
The issue with all of these heavies is compression, the fact for years stuff like the leopard 1 and amx 30s etc sat at 7.7 (7.3 for the damn leo) is what has caused it to feel like they are worse than they are.
The Is3 if it didnt get uptiered into LRF apds slinging or heat slinging mbts wouldnt need to go down.
Its like the f104 and mig19 etc.
They werent actually bad where tbey were before a10 and su25k where added, but the moving down of them caused massive compression.
If we push the IS3 and T10A down as well as IS6 those three tanks would literally kick the teeth out of everything in a downtier.
They moved all the cold war mbts out of facing 6.7 heavies,.which massively benefited USA and the German heavies.
They now need to decompress ground more.
We should rather than move stuff down he shouting for it to move up.
Fix tanks and move brs up.
Amx30 b2 or brenus
Laser range finder
Thermals
Dart
Great mobility only missing a stab ( because gaijin wont implement one due to the weeird french systen used).
Sits at 8.7, the conquoror or is4, or even m103 can come across that.
Consistently in uptiers
We need a spread change to 0.7 or br decompression
I would actually say I see more mauses than I do Soviet heavies, apart from the people who first get the IS-3 and think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread lol, but then quickly realize how bad it is.
The M-51 is another tank that is a hard balance. It had ammo it shouldn’t never gotten, having 400mm HEAT pen at 6.0 is crazy, that thing bullies heavies from 5.0 - 8.3 no matter the nation.
See I wouldn’t mind keeping them at their current br, the Soviet heavies if they decompressed 6.7 - 8.3
As the Soviet heavies are pretty much worthless. I find far more fun in my somua, which ironically gets way more downtiers than the soviets. Not sure why this is the case, but my buddy was grinding his IS-3 and had a T-54 in his lineup, and we were both playing Russia so I was helping him. We only saw 8.7 matches, and got sh** on constantly.
Then I swapped to France as I still had to spade my amx-13 7.7 tank, and suddenly it was a fully downtier. Magic
I think the bigger problem is the HEAT-FS shells being rampant from 5.3 - 8.3 that just make armor inert.
is-2s get Br-417D as well as IS3, IS4, IS6, T-10A.
Also, if they gave the T-10A a HEAT-FS round then it would be okay for it’s BR probably
Lastly, I remember when the Leo was a 7.0 ☠️
No, 8° is actually a pretty big difference for a tank so mobile. It doesn’t matter much for MBTs, but for tanks that go airborne so much, that’s a pretty massive advantage especially with the stabilizer.
Also I just confirmed it
The 6.7 - 7.7 heavies all have the same shell BR-471D
Which isn’t terribly better than BR-471B tbh.
230mm pen is a bit of a struggles at 7.7 and even somewhat at 7.3
That was realistically what it fired unfortunately!
That unfortunately isnt a solely ussr heavy problem the m103 in uptiers is an absolute slab of sh*t as well.
Or even the conquoror, its so map dependant and against 8.7s its getting dunked on.
Not entirely but they do make it more irritating.
But thats not an issue solelyfor the russian heavies.
You got american tanks like the m36 is it? The TD that has a 90mm heat round.
They completely invalidate heavy armour, however themselves dont completely destroy rhe bracket.
Look at it like the m48 at 7.7, it has heatfs but its not a wonder weapon, (surprisingly effective armour too) tiger 2 will still absolutely ruin your day, or IS3 will absolutely ruin it.
T10A didnt get heat FS, if it got given it, would likely go yp to 8.0, as being a worse t10m but with 122mm heatfs.
Lets not go there 😂 everyother coldwar mbt sitting at 7.7 and its 2 steps below it.
But russian bias!
See i remember when they didnt all have the BR471D , i know IS6 got it when it moved up as i used to use the B variant.
230mm pen for the round aint bad especially if youre aiming for the weakpoints man, usually its a one tap.
Again, as weve said the biggest issue with all of these heavies isnt fighting 7.7s at their own Br.
Its the fact when theyre uptiered its against far more mobile, fully stabilised, lrf, dart chuckers.
And if they dont have a lrf then its still all of those.
Idk there is a lot of tanks I think are really good around this area, M48s, m47s (Any French tank).
the 122mm gets eaten a lot by volumetric on the M48 believe it or not.
I 75% agree. The m103 was definitely one of my more favorite heavies. My favorite heavy is probably the T32E1
But yes they all suffer the same.
Then quite honestly, the m51 should be a 7.3 or 7.7
It has a 7.5 sec ace reload with a 105mm and I get it has no armor. But that gun + turret combo is deadly. Also is it just me, or do 105mm guns do more damage than 120 or 122mms?
Average m36 gameplay when a 45mm HE comes flying at it:
All still get dogged on by 8.7s.
All can take out 8.7s
The soviet heavies are.not anything unique in the matter and decompression is far better than moving them down.
Because if we move them.down then idiots will want other stuff dropped even further example A. Tiger 2
And tiger 1 panther 1 would all end up going further down.
Causing more.compression.
The 90mm round heat also gets eaten by volumetric alot tbh man, a lot of russian tanks havw tracks or such strapped into it as well.
(Volumetric is horrible tbf)
Love the m103 myself, no idea why it doesnt get a sabot as the british 120mm cannon based off of them m103s does.
I like the t32 as well but it does suffer uptiered.
Like coming across it in a chieftain is just sad.
Have you used the m51? It could maybe, like struggle to ve 6.3.
The platform is absolutely useless man, genuinely all it has going for it is the gun and even then, the gun handling is beyond pathetic.
Lets look at the sabra mk1 for example, should it be 10.7? It has an 11.3 round at 9.7, with a 6 second reload. But the platform falls behind tanks of the same br
Or the 120s? Its got an abrams turret, reload anf the m829A1 round at a whopping 10.3! , should it.go up to 11.0?
No , because while they have one trump card, they suck on every other regard.
The m51 is so damn slow, tall, and lightly armoured it is incredibly easy to take at its br.
Secondly its one of the few tanks ive acrually used GE just to get past man it is horrifyingly bad
Genuinely feels like it sometimes.
Even at higher brs my most recent comparison is the TTD vs CR1 Mk2 , cr2 has the 120mm round but dm63 which is similarly pen related to L23A1 (angle pen) DM63 always shreds while l23 struggles.
Same.as the m900 vs m829a1
Well that’s why they should base BRs decently off of effectiveness.
But we can’t see vehicle stats on the gaijin side.
Also, yes I’ve played the first M-51 I loved hitting anything anywhere and not having to worry lol
M51 is very slow and unarmored, it’s pretty much an M36B2 with better armor and better gun. I don’t think 6.3 would be a terrible BR for it but no higher IMO
FINALLY an agreement.
The br should reflect the vehicles not the other way around.