So, we loop back to the core issue being the undertiered Gepards.
I wouldn’t say a lot. The Skyhawks, Yak-130, and Hunter F.58 would have to move up, and some Bullpup carriers might need to move up as you mentioned, but most CAS in that range (e.g F-84G and AV-8C) are already overtiered when it comes to the ground attack role.
That is a fair point, and Bullpups do certainly perform far better ingame then irl, however, not \every nation gets MCLOS missiles at 8.0. Some nations are stuck with no ballistics computers, and no MCLOS even up to 9.0. For the nations that do have em, it really sucks not being able to use iconic CAS planes like the AV-8C as actual CAS.
I still don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.
Are you saying that because some people circumvent playing tanks, and go straight to CAS, that CAS should be unusable if you get an uptier?
Again, that’s a toptier issue. FnF munitions on helicopters was the worst addition since FnF munitions on tanks. Toptier sucks, and it would still be a painful and broken mess even if all its CAS problems were solved.
I’ve always seen CAS as a low risk low reward playstyle. You can get pretty much 100% assured kills, but at the cost of only carrying 1-4 munitions. Conversely a tank can rack up 10+ kills in a single life, but it’s far riskier.
iirc, Germany and Britain are the only nations that would lack 7.3 or 7.7 SPAA.
decompresion needs to start somewhere, and I think 8.0-9.0 is the perfect spot.
8.3 CAS like the SAAB-105, and 9.3 CAS like the AV-8C have near identical payloads. The only difference between 8.3 and 9.0 SPAA is SAMs (which suck at close range) and proxy rounds which have the same use cases as non-proxy radar SPAA.
It would be fine for 8.3-9.0 CAS/SPAA to temporarily share a BR until the decompression wave works its way to toptier.
Even at 9.0 the Gepards would still likely be stronger (for their BR) than most WW2 AAs.
No, I believe it has a similar threat level.
Again, they have the entirety of rank 1-5 to realize they should probably grind planes. Not to mention, if so many players already have rank 4 in planes, grinding out rank 5 for an early CAP plane shouldn’t be an issue. You don’t need 8.3 CAP to take down 8.3 CAS.
I would just fix the goddamn thing of it moving faster when it’s suspension is depressed forward. Just make it move like that without that and it plays way better that way.
I’ve played Israel 8.7 quite a bit years ago, do you know what 7.7s are to these pattons on steroid? free foods. From here you can already see they are quite fat from all the free foods. When t32e1, is4m or conquerer shows up what are they going to do agaist these heavily modified pattons with dm23? for the most part they gonna do nothing at all and just being a cannon fodder. To be honest, I do feel sorry when 7.7 sorry asses shows up
this is definitely a hot take but I honestly hate people who exclusively stay in their spawn and play SPAA more than people who abuse them and run around getting ground kills. Like at least the people getting ground kills aren’t exclusively watching out for planes so I can get into dogfights sometimes. Genuinely infuriating
Sure, let’s assume that the 35mm SPAAs are a bigger problem to balancing at those BR ranges than CAS.
If you move up the 35mm SPAAs to ~9.0, like you said earlier, there would still be a gap for a lot of countries that you’d either have to fill in with new SPAAs or allow CAS to go rampant because you’ve made SPAAs at those BRs mostly obsolete. The ZSU-23-4s and M163s sure aren’t going to be able to deal with MCLOS CAS and CCIP CAS, so you’d need them to grind for CAP as soon as possible.
Not only that, why would you bother running the 8.3 - 8.7 35mm SPAA over objectively better SPAA, like the M247, Rapier, and Gepard 1A2?
Well, no. It’s not just those aircraft, unless you want to compress all of 10.0 - 11.0.
All the 8.7 - 9.3 Skyhawks are objectively worse than the Ayit, which sits at 10.0. If you don’t want the Ayit to be the same BR as the other Skyhawks, you’d have to move it up in BR… but that means that it would become objectively worse than other CAS aircraft, like the Su-25BM
The Yak-130, while good at 9.3 / 9.7, would become incredibly easy to counter at 10.0+ because most aircraft, at that point, have radar missiles, much better flight performance, or much better SPAAs to deal with it. So, if we go by your idea of making SPAAs mostly useless, you’d have to move up every SPAA from 8.3 onwards to make sure none of them suffer from compression.
Again, Hunter F.58 is just a worse AJ37, which means that if you move up the Hunter F.58, you’d have to move up the AJ37, and then you’d have to move up the AJS37, and so on…
Sure, but the AV-8C has access to Aim-9Gs at 9.3, which already makes it one of the better aircraft when it comes to dealing with other aircraft, especially CAS aircraft.
Sure, it’s harder for the F-84G to perform CAS at its BR than it is for SPAA to perform aerial denial at the same BR, but I’d argue it’s much less of a problem than you make it out to be.
F-84G is extremely fast for a 7.7 aircraft, and it gets access to an array of rockets and bombs to deal with tanks and SPAAs at that BR.
Hence why I think those aircraft can either go down in BR and move the MCLOS / CCIP CAS aircraft up in BR.
Sure, but unless you remove its AIM-9Gs, it will be stuck at that kind of BR. It would be unfair for it to be at the same BR as other CCIP CAS without access to good AAMs and flares.
I somewhat agree with you here, but FnFs could have been made a lot more balanced given the requirement to exchange SP to rearm your helicopter or fixed-wing aircraft.
It really depends on the BR and what CAS you’re playing.
Not sure about you, but this doesn’t seem very low risk and low reward:
As for the lower BRs, the CCIP Zuni Albatross at 7.7 still allows you to earn a lot of kills, as well as MCLOS aircraft like the Scimitar and now the Vautour.
And let’s not mention the Me 262 A-1/U4, Yak-9K, Yak-9UT, Do 335s, and the J7W1…
Yes, but the fact is that the other players had a fighting chance against the player, unlike CAS.
I don’t think I know anyone who agrees that dying to CAS was their own fault. I guess they should’ve side-climbed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sure, but most of them would lack 8.3 - 8.7 SPAA.
I think it should go from the ground up. There are still a bunch of compression artifacts at the lower BRs that we shouldn’t ignore.
Yes, but one has flares, better acceleration, and much better AAMs.
Not exactly. Proxy SPAAs can intercept incoming munitions… something that non-proxy radar SPAA players could never even dream of. That is a huge step up in terms of capabilities that should not be swept under the rug.
Possibly, but I’d rather not.
Possibly, but it really depends on what you’re facing. I don’t think I know many WW2 SPAAs that can prevent Yak-9UTs and Me 262 A-1/U4 from decimating ground teams, but I do know most 35mm SPAA struggle with dealing with CCIP / MCLOS CAS in a lot of cases. Not only that, at 9.0, you’re starting to see 9.7 / 10.0 CAS with access to anti-radiation missiles, laser missiles, and much better flight models.
Again, I can assure you that you are mistaken, but feel free to prove me wrong in a custom.
Yes, but you need to remember what I said earlier. The deal was that ground players would have access to competent SPAA and CAP to deal with CAS. Removing competent SPAA in that deal would be a poor balancing decision, and you can’t blame ground players for that because they didn’t need to rely on CAP in the first place. It’s like blaming tenants for not getting a mortage when rent prices increase threefold.
Sure, but it heavily depends on the BR. Your 9.3 CAP is not going to reliably stop a 10.0 CAS, etc…
I want you to go back and read what I said before and then get back to me. I’m not the greatest player and I’m well aware of this, but the fact is I get uptiered constantly onto some of the worst maps in the entire game so my performances become even less consistent.
So you refuse help and continue to complain on the forums?
I understand having problems with the matchmaker and some of the balancing at 8.7, but moving them to 9.3 is not the best solution.
correct, the best solution is outright removal but moving them out of uptier range is the next best thing.
I do not need the kind of help that 2 random forums users offer me about a tank I do genuinely know how to play and have done well in. What I need is a new brain that doesn’t get frustrated at war thunder.
Well, the thing is, Scorpion and I haven’t had any special matchmaking than you have been getting.
So you could take some helpful tips from us or not that may or may not improve your experience at 7.7.
But that’s up to you to decide, which evidently isn’t the former.
Do let us know when you find one 😅
I think a lot of people could benefit from that.
the thing is, scorpion is also just incorrect about the conqueror and its rounds. Calling HESH good is just downright objectively incorrect and the sabot round is also VERY finnicky. Its armor CAN be good, but it also just will not matter quite a lot of the time. etc etc
