That’s good against the front of tanks but it 6 taps the sides of tanks where as the API-T needs some cheesing (in my hands) to kill tanks
The 2A4s are the jack of all trades. They don’t really offer anything special other than being a well-rounded MBT, but sometimes that is enough to make a vehicle some of the best in its class.
That being said, after the T-80BV had gotten a 6s reload buff, the Challenger 1s getting an engine buff, and the M1 Abrams getting a turret ring buff, the 2A4 is arguably equal to its peers now.
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let’s just ignore that the matchmaker isn’t anywhere near this bad at practically any other BR range in the game, eh? not even at 4.7, where there’s another broken as shit american premium heavy tank and a very good american light tank SPAA, is america fucking the matchmaker this bad during normal operating procedure (i.e. not during the month before an announced vehicle removal). and forget what I asked earlier, do you think the Churchill VII was overpowered at 4.7?
It’s one of the best all round MBTs in game, not the best at anything, but good-great at everything.
A lot of skill issue nation mains don’t see this, so I can’t fully blame you.
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You know what, you’re right. Every single vehicle in the U.S. tech tree is overpowered.
With the APHE, very much so.
You’re just wrong, but now what’s your opinion on the T14?
Almost none of the 10.7’s have good armour, that includes the M1 Abrams, Challenger Mk.3, Ariete (P), Vickers Mk.7, Strv 121, T-80B, etc. etc.
- M1 Abrams: 5.3s
- T-80B: 6.0s
- Ariete (P), Strv 121, Leopard 2A4NL, Leopard 2HU, Leopard 2 FIN, Leopard 2A4: 6.4s
- Challenger Mk.3: 5.3 - 7.1s
- T-90S, T-72 Moderna: 7.0s
Object 292: 10.0s
The reload is quite average.
And T-80B, and T-80UD, and T-90S, and Challenger DS, and Ariete (P), and Object 292, and T-72 Moderna.
Your argument loses a lot of credibility when you conveniently leave out a bunch of others vehicles which are less mobile.
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Not going to lie, I agree with @Pangolin_Fan that the Churchill Mk VII was overpowered at 4.7 with APHE.
It significantly boosted its ability to penetrate and one-shot enemies.
As a result, the Churchill Mk VII went from being an underpowered 4.7 to one of the best at its BR.
T14 is arguably just as good (gets a stab, 50.cal, APCR, and better top speed for much worse turret armour and less smoke grenades), and I think the T14 could honestly go to 5.0 too.
T14 can somewhat reliably bounce shells from a tiger on the turret. I’ve played it enough to witness first hand.
Panthers though? Not so much.
I think it really depends on where the turret is facing.
The flattest part of the mantlet is ~130mm, which is very good in a downtier but at 4.7+, there’s already bunch of vehicles with ~145mm+ rounds:
The flat cheeks on the T14 are around ~90mm at most, so it’s an easy pen for most things:
If you angle the turret almost perfectly, your turret cheek armour is around ~140mm, and the turret side armour is around ~100mm to around ~170mm depending on where the enemy shoots, so it’s not terrible but nothing remarkable, unlike with the Churchill Mk VII’s ~149mm of turret armour (when unangled):
As someone who played the VII extensively after it got APHE, I just disagree. People who were saying this only ever encountered or played it on its good maps, or just straight up walked into it and died. There were maybe 3 maps in the map pool where it was actually overpowered, everywhere else it was at most Very Good. The T14 and Excelsior are both just better than it for the simple reason that they have the mobility to do more than just play extremely aggressively. The 75 is an extremely bad sniping gun at that BR and you’re practically dead weight into any form of uptier against germany thanks to how hard VKs and panthers destroy you. Chaffees own you and any uparmored KV-1 just wins thanks to your turret roof. The VII was not remotely overpowered, war thunder players just don’t know how to kill churchills.
Well, the thing is. Most maps in war thunder (and in low tier especially) are mostly just CQC. And the maps that do encourage longer-range brawls tend to have places where CQC can still occur.
The Excelsior could probably go to 4.7 or maybe even 5.0 but I wouldn’t say it’s better than the Churchill. Its turret armour (while pretty good and better than the T14’s) starts to become lacklustre past 4.7, just like with the T14’s. The fact that you can’t use your turret armour to its fullest potential while aiming is a flaw that just can’t be disregarded.
I partially agree with this. While it’s true that Panthers and VKs directly counter it, in CQC, turret mantlet and corner shots are still very much possible against the VK.3002:
The Panthers are a lot harder, though I’d it’s reasonable given their BR / drawbacks.
Hard disagree. The only time a Chaffee can kill you is if you’re oblivious to your flanks.
You have 95mm of hull side armour:
And 95mm of turret side armour (with tracks):
So there’s almost zero ways where the Chaffee should naturally just beat you.
Of course, there’s weakspots from the turret welds, but that’s much smaller than the massive weakspot that is an entire Chaffee. Not to mention that you have a ton of smoke grenades, 24 degrees of turret rotation speed and quite respectable neutral traverse rate, so you should always have the ability to get guns on target.
I’d say it’s a similar fight. The KV-1s have a giant breech for you to shoot at, that sometimes can even kill some crew members:
The Churchill’s forehead roof armour is a vulnerability, though it’s inconsistent and depends on how you angle your turret, and how far away the enemy is.
Even then, I’d say you could say the same for any heavy tank.
Excelsior? Oh, war thunder players just don’t know how to kill them. Just use APCR / shoot the breech:
KV-1C? Oh, just shoot the cupola / breech:
T14? Oh, just shoot the flat turret cheek:
This is my friend’s performance after he played the Churchill Mk VII after it received APHE:
For comparison, his T14:
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I kinda disagree with moving up the Excelsior.
Sure it’s a really good 4.3 but 4.7 worthy? Not yet.
Again 4.0 / 4.3 / 4.7 all commonly play at 5.0 / 5.3 / 5.7
I can’t honestly recall the last time I was down tiered in the 4.X range.
I’d say it’s as good as the T14. It has better turret armour, much better acceleration, more smoke grenades, access to neutral steering, much better top speed, and 12 degrees of gun depression.
Whereas the T14 gets a stabilizer, a 50.cal, 10 degrees of gun depression for all of the front, slightly better reverse speed, and APCR.
I mean, that’s true.
It’s similar to 5.3, where every match is almost always at 6.0 or 6.3.
That being said, that doesn’t mean 5.3 vehicles should be lowered as a result, and it shouldn’t mean that 4.0s / 4.3s / 4.7s (who deserve to be uptiered) shouldn’t go up.
T14 is much better than the Excelsior imo.
Merely because of the low speed stab
Also worth nothing the Excelsior likely should have 3.5" thick mantlet instead of 2.5". It’s seemingly the same universal mantlet used on the Cromwells and Crusader III (Churchill III uses a fairly similar mantlet, bit it does slightly differ in construction). It makes no sense for them to give their assault tank a less armored version of the same mantlet used on the Crusader.
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I think the low speed stab and 50.cal makes up for the worse turret armour and mobility though.
The VII doesn’t have the mobility or gun to be anything except supremely aggressive. Chaffees are super mobile and will 100% CBT you before you can react to them a lot of the time.
this, like the KV-1s driver’s port, is a fake weakspot. Between Volumetric and the fact that if you have a shot there the VK definitely has a way better shot into you, it’s not getting hit as often as you’d hope.
I’m of the opinion that the Excelsior is and has always been better than the VII, it just doesn’t have the stats to justify anything to gaijin because nobody has it. What it lacks in raw armor it more than makes up for in the mobility to get to places you wouldn’t expect. The VII cannot do this, it’s simply going to get outmaneuvered if you try to flank on maps like Seversk and outsniped on maps like Volokolamsk or Mozdok. The map where it’s most broken is north holland, and even then you have to play by the river to not get sniped or outflanked. The VII is slow, the gun is supremely mid for the BR even with APHE and the raw armor just can’t make up for the barrel and lack of mobility.
the kv-1e/b is genuinely just better than you in every way except for the gun. Their mobility is better, their weakspots are fake as fuck thanks to volumetric, they have a way more consistent way of penning you than you do of penning them. Genuinely put them to 6.0 because the fact that 3.7 tanks have to fight them is genuinely egregious and their players deserve nothing but torture.
you could improve low tier by an order of magnitudes by simply deleting the all of the KVs from the game’s code.
It’s top speed is less then T-80B and I look at 10.7 MBTs.