Ground Vehicles **PROPOSED** RB battle rating changes

[rainy2000]

Well, the thing is. Most maps in war thunder (and in low tier especially) are mostly just CQC. And the maps that do encourage longer-range brawls tend to have places where CQC can still occur.

The Excelsior could probably go to 4.7 or maybe even 5.0 but I wouldn’t say it’s better than the Churchill. Its turret armour (while pretty good and better than the T14’s) starts to become lacklustre past 4.7, just like with the T14’s. The fact that you can’t use your turret armour to its fullest potential while aiming is a flaw that just can’t be disregarded.

@Yubel2

any form of uptier against germany thanks to how hard VKs and panthers destroy you.

I partially agree with this. While it’s true that Panthers and VKs directly counter it, in CQC, turret mantlet and corner shots are still very much possible against the VK.3002:

The Panthers are a lot harder, though I’d it’s reasonable given their BR / drawbacks.

@Yubel2

Chaffees own you

Hard disagree. The only time a Chaffee can kill you is if you’re oblivious to your flanks.

You have 95mm of hull side armour:

And 95mm of turret side armour (with tracks):

So there’s almost zero ways where the Chaffee should naturally just beat you.

Of course, there’s weakspots from the turret welds, but that’s much smaller than the massive weakspot that is an entire Chaffee. Not to mention that you have a ton of smoke grenades, 24 degrees of turret rotation speed and quite respectable neutral traverse rate, so you should always have the ability to get guns on target.

@Yubel2

uparmored KV-1 just wins thanks to your turret roof.

I’d say it’s a similar fight. The KV-1s have a giant breech for you to shoot at, that sometimes can even kill some crew members:

The Churchill’s forehead roof armour is a vulnerability, though it’s inconsistent and depends on how you angle your turret, and how far away the enemy is.

@Yubel2

war thunder players just don’t know how to kill churchills.

Even then, I’d say you could say the same for any heavy tank.

Excelsior? Oh, war thunder players just don’t know how to kill them. Just use APCR / shoot the breech:

Spoiler

KV-1C? Oh, just shoot the cupola / breech:

Spoiler

T14? Oh, just shoot the flat turret cheek:

Spoiler

This is my friend’s performance after he played the Churchill Mk VII after it received APHE:

For comparison, his T14:

[UniqueScorpions-live]

I kinda disagree with moving up the Excelsior.

Sure it’s a really good 4.3 but 4.7 worthy? Not yet.

Again 4.0 / 4.3 / 4.7 all commonly play at 5.0 / 5.3 / 5.7

I can’t honestly recall the last time I was down tiered in the 4.X range.

[rainy2000]

@UniqueScorpions-live

Sure it’s a really good 4.3 but 4.7 worthy? Not yet.

I’d say it’s as good as the T14. It has better turret armour, much better acceleration, more smoke grenades, access to neutral steering, much better top speed, and 12 degrees of gun depression.

Whereas the T14 gets a stabilizer, a 50.cal, 10 degrees of gun depression for all of the front, slightly better reverse speed, and APCR.

@UniqueScorpions-live

Again 4.0 / 4.3 / 4.7 all commonly play at 5.0 / 5.3 / 5.7

I can’t honestly recall the last time I was down tiered in the 4.X range.

I mean, that’s true.
It’s similar to 5.3, where every match is almost always at 6.0 or 6.3.

That being said, that doesn’t mean 5.3 vehicles should be lowered as a result, and it shouldn’t mean that 4.0s / 4.3s / 4.7s (who deserve to be uptiered) shouldn’t go up.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

T14 is much better than the Excelsior imo.

Merely because of the low speed stab

[Fourche7]

@rainy2000

It has better turret armour,

Also worth nothing the Excelsior likely should have 3.5" thick mantlet instead of 2.5". It’s seemingly the same universal mantlet used on the Cromwells and Crusader III (Churchill III uses a fairly similar mantlet, bit it does slightly differ in construction). It makes no sense for them to give their assault tank a less armored version of the same mantlet used on the Crusader.

[rainy2000]

I think the low speed stab and 50.cal makes up for the worse turret armour and mobility though.

[Yubel2]

@rainy2000

Hard disagree. The only time a Chaffee can kill you is if you’re oblivious to your flanks.

The VII doesn’t have the mobility or gun to be anything except supremely aggressive. Chaffees are super mobile and will 100% CBT you before you can react to them a lot of the time.

@rainy2000

I partially agree with this. While it’s true that Panthers and VKs directly counter it, in CQC, turret mantlet and corner shots are still very much possible against the VK.3002:

this, like the KV-1s driver’s port, is a fake weakspot. Between Volumetric and the fact that if you have a shot there the VK definitely has a way better shot into you, it’s not getting hit as often as you’d hope.

@rainy2000

The Excelsior could probably go to 4.7 or maybe even 5.0 but I wouldn’t say it’s better than the Churchill.

I’m of the opinion that the Excelsior is and has always been better than the VII, it just doesn’t have the stats to justify anything to gaijin because nobody has it. What it lacks in raw armor it more than makes up for in the mobility to get to places you wouldn’t expect. The VII cannot do this, it’s simply going to get outmaneuvered if you try to flank on maps like Seversk and outsniped on maps like Volokolamsk or Mozdok. The map where it’s most broken is north holland, and even then you have to play by the river to not get sniped or outflanked. The VII is slow, the gun is supremely mid for the BR even with APHE and the raw armor just can’t make up for the barrel and lack of mobility.

@rainy2000

I’d say it’s a similar fight. The KV-1s have a giant breech for you to shoot at

the kv-1e/b is genuinely just better than you in every way except for the gun. Their mobility is better, their weakspots are fake as fuck thanks to volumetric, they have a way more consistent way of penning you than you do of penning them. Genuinely put them to 6.0 because the fact that 3.7 tanks have to fight them is genuinely egregious and their players deserve nothing but torture.

[Yubel2]

you could improve low tier by an order of magnitudes by simply deleting the all of the KVs from the game’s code.

[Pro_Gamer_Cat]

It’s top speed is less then T-80B and I look at 10.7 MBTs.

[Pro_Gamer_Cat]

Where are you getting 6.4 reload for the leopard 2A4? 🤣 This might come as a shocker to you, but Strv 121, Leopard 2A4NL, Leopard 2HU, Leopard 2 FIN, Leopard 2A4 are L2A4. Ariete has DM33 so it makes it best tech tree Dart at 10.7 (not including light tanks). And I was using tech tree vehicles not premiums or event vehicles. And if you look at the stat cards you’ll see that It’s slower then most other MBT’s forward and faster then some in reverse. But I guess it’s non supportive of your argument to actually use the in game data ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Pro_Gamer_Cat]

I didn’t unlock the L2A4 yet, but I don’t really get how a tank that isn’t faster then couple tanks and has a top reload of 6.0 sec. when others have better penning rounds with the same reload or faster. Can’t look anywhere behind it self or reverse faster then other MBTs. While having 2nd worst penning round at 10.7. And in addition to that has bad armor. Though it does get a good turret traverse and hp/t can be the best MBT. Or does it suddenly flip after 9.3/7 and these 2 factors make a “good” MBT.

[YEARoftheABRAMS]

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

I didn’t unlock the L2A4

Then why type paragraphs upon paragraphs of nonsense?

[Pro_Gamer_Cat]

Bc I look at the stats.

[_Renzo]

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

Where are you getting 6.4 reload for the leopard 2A4? 🤣

It’s called an expert crew reload.

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

Bc I look at the stats.

You are really not helping yourself get rid of the skill issue German main allegations lmao.

Just keep digging a deeper hole.

[Fourche7]

M-51s are pretty contentious at their current BRs. There is a way they can be buffed so that they can get moved up.

---

The muzzle velocity of the HEAT-FS is way lower than it should be by 115~120 m/s. No real penetration boost from that since its a chemical round, but it does make the primary round way more convenient to aim.

They also had domestically produced HESH that become a standard service round.

M-51 | Muzzle velocity

Missing HESH shell for M-51 Sherman

[Necrons31467]

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

It’s top speed is less then T-80B

And a M56’s top speed is less than a Panther A, do you seriously believe that makes the M56 less mobile?

Please tell me you’re not that ignorant regarding the game’s mechanics.

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

and I look at 10.7 MBTs.

So did I? Quote me a single tank that I listed which isn’t at 10.7.

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

Where are you getting 6.4 reload for the leopard 2A4? […] I didn’t unlock the L2A4 yet

War Thunder? Where else?

But seriously though, clearly you have no knowledge about anything in the game, but then I don’t understand why you’d even argue any of these points with people?

I won’t start to debate a rocket scientist on how to do their job when I haven’t got a clue about anything related to that field of work, yet here you are and you:

A) Seemingly don’t even know the Battle Ratings of the vehicles involved.
B) Don’t know how to find/read reload rates.
C) Don’t understand how mobility characteristics work.

Yet you’re debating this stuff anyways. It’s okay to admit you’re not knowledgeable on a subject and learn more about it before commenting.

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

This might come as a shocker to you, but Strv 121, Leopard 2A4NL, Leopard 2HU, Leopard 2 FIN, Leopard 2A4 are L2A4

I never claimed otherwise?

Serious question and not meant as an insult: Are you a very young person? Perhaps 13 years old or so? Because the alternative is that you’re trolling/rage baiting, and I like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Xx8xX]

Yes because Gaijin think is worst that HE ofc no Rus tank use it

And got butt hurt so much in IRL from HESH that can’t work in the game

The only HESH that work atm is from T58 but with so many cry babys in Forum and Gaijin patting them in the back with 0 consideration for paying players they will nerf it in some time.

For reasons

Balancing

History

Realism

It’s just a game

basicly whatever go down in they heads

Pray so they don’t put them as standard round

[Fourche7]

@Xx8xX

And got butt hurt so much in IRL from HESH that can’t work in the game

The only HESH that work atm is from T58 but with so many cry babys in Forum and Gaijin patting them in the back with 0 consideration for paying players they will nerf it in some time.

HESH is kinda glazed. Baring very large caliber HESH, it’s rather easy to counter with spaced armor or other early-mid CW era armor advancements.

But against basic armor, it’s damage in-game is very gimped. The large armor scab created by HESH is absent, and the remaining shrapnel should be more effective against modules.

That being said, the game incorrectly assumes penetration remains the same at all angles, which is to the round’s benefit.

[Yubel2]

@Pro_Gamer_Cat

Where are you getting 6.4 reload for the leopard 2A4? 🤣

the same place you get a 4 second reload for anything with the 6 pounder: crew leveling

[Yubel2]

@Xx8xX

The only HESH that work atm is from T58 but with so many cry babys in Forum and Gaijin patting them in the back with 0 consideration for paying players they will nerf it in some time.

the t58 is obscenely overpowered and its hesh is ridiculous. it’s not remotely ok to have a tank with a 2.5 second reload that also has a round that kills literally everything in the game in one shot by shooting the tracks