Ground Vehicles **PROPOSED** RB battle rating changes

More than the MiG-21S?
I mean, the S gets a better flight performance, but it gets worse missiles as a trade-off (though the MiG-21S would have 4x missiles if the SPSK takes 2x R-60s or 2x R-13M1s).

At 9.3, there are other Mig-21s with the same flight performance as the SPS-K (Such as the MiG-21PFM), and they do not get access to R-13M1s nor R-60s, nor R-3Rs, or 4x R-3S.

Keep in mind the R-13M1s are some of the best missiles at that BR too. They have 20Gs of pull and have some of the best range & acceleration out of any missile at ~9.7 (even better than the Aim-9Gs / Aim-9Ds, and Magic 1s):

They are practically a death sentence for most flareless aircraft at that BR.

Some top-tier changes I’d make if I had any say.

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I agree with most of these changes, though I’d like to add a few things:
BMPT / BMPT-72 will continue to be a pain in the ass to deal with hull down even at 12.0, but I’m guessing at that point, most tanks are already starting to have APS to counter it.
Though I would rather have it go to 10.3 / 10.7 and have its 30mm belt kill the crew every time.

The VT4 is at 12.3 and is basically the ZTZ99A with much worse mobility.
At least the VT4A1 would get APS over the ZTZ99A.
I’d put the VT4 at 12.0.

T-72B3A being 0.7 BRs higher over the T-72B3 just because of the Arena-M APS doesn’t sit right with me, but maybe that’s reasonable given the number of missiles it can intercept (including helicopter ATGMs and fixed-wing aircraft), especially because of its 40 degrees of vertical protection.

I don’t think the Leopard 2A4M is better than some other 11.7s, like the M1A1, Challenger 2, and Type 90. If we compare it to the M1A1, for example, it gets a worse round, worse reload, worse hull armour… for slightly better turret armour, and gen 3 thermals. I’d say it should go down to 11.7.

I’m also not sure about the 2PL being the same BR as the 2A5, 2A6, and PSO.
The 2PL gets Gen 3 thermals (instead of Gen 1), but has worse hull armour and turret armour (unless their wedges break). But I can see how the average player may prefer one or the other depending on the map.

The Black Night being at 12.3 could make sense (if you use it at long range), but at close range, it’s effectively just an 11.7 Challenger 2 with 4 APS charges against ATGMs like the BMPT’s, and access to LWS. 0.7 BR difference may make sense for long range maps, but I think a 0.3 BR difference may make more sense in CQC (which is what most maps are at top tier anyways).

The Challenger 2E is a lot more mobile than the 11.7 Challengers, but it’s effectively a crappier M1A2 / M1A1 HC / AIM aside from not having detonatable ammo in the turret, and slightly better hull armour. I’d like to see its first stage get increased or have its ammo replenish quicker into first stage, or move it down to 12.0.

I think the Challenger 3 TD is as good as the 11.7 Challenger 2s (if they get an increased first stage / faster replenishment), so if you aren’t going to move up the 11.7s to 12.0, I’d say move down the Challenger 3 TD too.

I’d like to see the Oplot’s hull armour be more reliable.
If not, then I think it being at 12.0 would be reasonable since the T-80U-E1 would have a worse round and reverse speed, but would have better acceleration, more reliable hull armour, and slightly better gun depression over the Oplot.

I’d move down all the Leclercs to 12.3 as they are inferior to the SEP V1 / SEP V2 in every way other than acceleration and the lack of a NATO Hump. You could even argue that the Leclercs (as they are currently) are worse than the M1A2s / M1A1 HCs too, so they could possibly even go to 12.0.
Though I’d first like to see if they could get access to a better round before moving them down by 0.7 BRs.

I’m not sure about having the Ariete AMV being the same BR as the M1A2s / M1A1 HCs / AIMs.
Its mobility is better than those Abrams but the armour is considerably worse to the point where even 10.7s don’t struggle with killing it (other than maybe the M1 Abrams).
I think it going to 12.0 may be more reasonable.

One more thing I’d like to mention, the Strv 122s recently got DM53, which is a pretty noticeable buff.
So not only are they more mobile, have even better hull armour, roof armour, and smaller barrels, but now they pretty much have the same firepower too. The only reason I’d choose the 2A7V over the 122s are for the thermals, but I’m not sure if that’s a worthy trade-off. At least the Hungarian 2A7V gets better roof armour, and a 50.cal.
Though I’m not sure if all those benefits the 122s get is enough to warrant a 0.3 BR difference with the 2A7V. That’s up to debate in my opinion.

Though again, everything else about your changes seem good to me.

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Nah this is doo doo. Lowering some of the strongest toptier tanks (Leo 2) whilst moving the Abrams up?

Welp this is the first time I’ve seen someone say the objectively better puma with missiles should be at the same br for the only offset being the ammo that should kill you, can kill you now. Yes very balance.

So how about instead, the bmpt stays at its current br, and can be actually ammo racked, how about that.

Or if you truly want to to be moved down to 10.3. then it’s atgms gotta go.

ye because the abrams and leos are really different from each other

Well, I said it could go to 10.3 / 10.7.
If now being able kill it through the 30mm belt is still too difficult, I’d be fine with it going to 10.7.

Besides that, the PUMA ( in its current state at least) shouldn’t be at 10.3 anyways. It was extremely good at 8.3 but now Gaijin had decided to make it practically useless at its BR (and many other 25mm, 30mm, and 35mm autocannon IFVs).
I think the PUMA would be reasonable at 9.7, with PUMA VJTF at 10.0 / 10.3.

That, or they get the 600 RPM improved firerate (though I’m not sure how realistic that would be), and ammo boxes for spikes (8 instead of just 4).

Thirdly, the PUMAs can survive APFSDS through their turret whereas the BMPTs would not. The BMPTs also don’t get much gun depression nor much of a reverse speed, unlike the PUMA.

Well, they are two completely different tanks with different names made by two different nations under two different doctrines.

what really makes them different in playstyle ?

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This is what I meant. The only problem I have with the BT-7M really isn’t even its fault, I just happened to play it with an unleveled crew so the gun handling was even worse than normal (also I really just don’t like reserve tier in general but that’s not exclusive to the BT-7M)

As a six pounder glazer, I can never hate a 57 mm if it reloads quickly. They’re just so GOOD.

Well the puma should have 2 more spikes, there are pictures, but I don’t know if they will ever fix the puma, don’t go into the rabbit hole you will die in there from how terribly modeled it is

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I have some problems whit 6.0 -7.0 Germany. Jagdtiger and Tiger II (Nr.1-50) should be at 6.3. Jagdtiger should be at 6.3 due to it’s awful mobility and it’s armor isn’t great against heavys like T29 and 34s. Tiger II (Nr.1-50) should be at 6.3 due to it’s very bad weakspots (Turret cheeks (Can be penned by a sherman)).

Any thoughts?

I’d rather see them just do a wide sweeping BR decompression around end of WW2-Early CW.

Let’s be honest, it is hilarious that the Tiger II Early (I will never call it Nr1-50) sits at the same BR as the standard Tiger II. The turret is hilariously awful when you compare the two.

That being said, would it be fair to bring it down to 6.3? Even with it’s subpar turret it will be a menace to 5.3’s, who’ll have to see the German long 88 on an actually functioning hull instead of on lightly armoured tank destroyers.

So I’d rather see most of the current 6.7 lineup move to 7.0 (With stuff above them moving up correspondingly, of course), and just let the Tiger II Early and Jagdtiger stay at 6.7.

Also, I wouldn’t say armour is really a bad point of the Jagdtiger. It’s frontal plate is volumetric hell and completely unpennable by the Soviet 100 and 122, and US heavies will need to know the weak spots. Where it does suffer badly is mobility and gun handling, of course. To the point that I’d first spawn the Ferdinand in basically every instance over the Jagdtiger.

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Do you honestly believe a Leopard 2A6 is equal to a Strv 122A, Leopard 2A7V, M1A2 Trophy or M1A2 SEP v3?

The standard M1A2 and Leopard 2A6 are relatively equal in overall capability, so the current 0.7 BR gap between them makes no sense.

My BR changes are what I’d realistically expect Gaijin to be able to do, hence the small BR steps of 0.3 instead of 0.7 BR changes.

I’m also being conservative here as there’s some vehicles in there which I’ve not played myself. This applies to your comments regarding the VT4A1, T-72B3A, Black Night, etc.

Is it though?

LFP on the M1 is miles ahead of that of the Challenger 2E, and the M1’s UFP is an automatic ricochet and immune to all APFSDS in the entire game for 80% of it’s surface.

The M1A1 with it’s volumetric turret ring is even better protected. The remaining 20% of the UFP that’s vulnerable via ricochet into the turret ring, is much less vulnerable given the volumetric turret ring seems to soak up the residual penetration after the round ricochets, unlike the old armour model.

Like I said, I don’t play it so I’m not too comfortable ranking stuff I’ve never played, hence why there’s mostly US, German, British and Russian stuff on my list.

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Not sure you want an honest answer to that question.

You said it very well, but I would like to say that the match maker should be reworked to a greater degree. By this I mean that some vehicles should have a cap, in the case of the Tiger 2 for example should have a cap of 7.0 meaning that it can’t face vehicles above 7.0. This would make playing in late WW2 vehicles funner as you won’t face heat demons and cold war heavies. But as for the current situation I would say that Jagdtiger and Tiger II (Nr.1-50) should be moved down to 6.3 with some reworks.

Reworks:
Jagdtiger: Improve the weak spot, by this I mean that when you shout the mg port it pens not when you shoot below it.
Tiger II (Nr.1-50): Increase the reload 8.9 - 7.5 → 10.5 - 9.0, decrease the traverse rates 13.3 - 19 °/s → 10.0 - 15.8 °/s Hor.; 2.8 - 4 °/s → 2.4 - 3.5 Ver.

I think they shouldn’t be moved down. It’s thing same thing as moving the F-86s down, instead of moving the planes around them up.

Meh, not really. Very comparable mobility and firepower, except one of them will explode the second an autocannon even looks at it.

In that case the M1A1 AIM, M1A2, M1A1 HC, Click-Bait, etc. need to move to 12.7.

  • Mobility? Yes, they’re comparable.

  • Firepower? Nope. The M1A2 is simply superior thanks to the 1.1sec faster reload on an expert crew qualification. Also has 50. cals and airburst ammo, also has a significantly better ready rack supply.

  • Armour? M1A2 has significantly stronger hull armour with it’s UFP that’s immune to all APFSDS in the entire game and LFP that’s SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than that of the 2A6.

  • Gun handling? M1A2 is simply superior thanks to it’s less limiting gun arc compared to a Leopard 2 and extra degree of gun depression.

  • Survivability? M1A2 is once again equal or superior, it’s (external) fuel tanks in the hull’s flanks provide extra protection and it doesn’t feature exposed hull stowage, it’s also got the driver in the centre rather than lined up with the gunner and commander, which makes frontal one-shots more easy.

Once the remaining M1’s receive their updated armour models, there’s virtually nothing the Leopard 2A6 has over the M1A2.

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Are those strongest toptier tanks in one room with us?


Screenshot_20260729-235845
12.0 Abrams for comparison

What those leopards do have? Better turret protection and better shell with like +30 mm of pen?
While multiply abrams sitting at 12.0 have:
Better mobility
Better reload
Bouncy UFP
-10
Smaller obstruction zones
12.7 browning
ESS
Ability to carry safely as many shells as you want without making itself TNT bomb
Best utility shell m830A1
Have I forgot something?

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