Ground Vehicles **PROPOSED** RB battle rating changes

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
3620

The QF 75 was made with the express purpose of using US ammunition. By the time the QF 75 was introduced, fusing issues with M61 APHE were largely resolved, so they did actually use this round in fair quantity. It’s not fair, in my eyes, to describe representing these vehicles more accurately as “slopifying”.

This argument isn’t useful anyways since the update hasn’t dropped yet, so you can’t act like they’ve been exploiting APHE this whole time when grinding the British tree.

The 6-pdr offers noticeably better RoF, penetration, and has a flatter shell trajectory compared to the QF 75. Tanks with it aren’t going to become useless just because the QF 75 gets to perform at its intended level, so that’s not a good rationale for handicapping the 75 mm to be direct downgrade to the 6-pdr.

If the QF 75-armed tanks do end up being stronger than their higher BR 6-pdr counterparts, just move them up. I already proposed how that might look for the Valentine XI such that the Valentine IX would still serve a role.

Furthermore, the Valentine IX and Cromwell I should actually have even better guns that currently. They have 6-pdr Mk.Vs with the stats of the 6-pdr Mk.III. They should have comparable performance to the Churchill III, which actually has the opposite issue currently.
Valentine Mk. IX Wrong 6-Pdr
Cromwell Mk. I Wrong 6-Pdr

The Sherman II does have a stabilizer and .50 cal. that you can’t find on any QF 75-armed tank iirc. The former is a very strong asset that would allow it to kill a Cromwell V first most of the time in a hypothetical encounter. It would come down to a matter of player preference, or what type of map you’re playing on.
I can still see your point however. I think the Cromwell V could go up further to 4.0 now, in which case, the Sherman II at 3.7 would still serve a purpose in the tree.

1 Like
3621

Yeah I was talking about the KV-1E and B.

I was just being plural. They’re very easy to pen now adays with all the nerfs in br they’ve gotten.

3.3s have no problem killing KV-1Es regularly

3622

It’s slopifying because APHE is genuinely just a slop round. You’re rewarded for aiming less and even get to just ignore your enemy’s armor a significant amount of the time thanks to how cupola shots work. WT players will say solid shot is dogshit because they’ve literally only used APHE and think that not being able to just shoot center mass and kill 100% of the time is “bad damage”. Yes it’s cathartic to just delete IS-1s and 2s with the american 76, but that’s not remotely balanced either. It’s also ridiculous that a shot to the turret can just delete an engine but I’m not here to debate APHE with people.

99% of WT players take APHE over pen because APHE is just a massive crutch.

You can’t see my point actually, because that’s not my point. The british 75s getting APHE makes the british tech tree less interesting and gives a bad impression on how the tree plays later. The only other British tank to get APHE past the 2 pounder is a churchill with an american gun. It’s all solid shot or sabot from that point (except artillery vehicles), you actually need to learn to aim for certain spots instead of just shooting the cupola.

Oh look at mister excelsior over here being able to shoot at KVs without the dumbest possible weakspot due to russian APHEBC.
image
KV-1E
image
KV-1 m1942
both against the Churchill 3’s Shot Mk.9

personally I don’t think this is particularly easy to pen in the heat of combat, especially not when both of these can very easily just one shot you back in most vehicles.

1 Like
3623

With any of those KVs you always shoot the gun first anyways. Then driver port it.

Or you could just driver port it. Your call.

Also… what? What does this even mean???

Sounds like a skill issue on your part.

1 Like
3625

You mean the weakspot you didn’t enlightenment about, because it’s not actually the roof but the commanders hatch? Which… I already knew about?

But since it is so much of a coin toss, it’s not the best shot place.

3626

Depends on how you play.

Sherman 2 has better frontal and turret armor and has vertical stab. It’s a better brawler than the Cromwell. Also has the .50 cal for use against spaa and CAS.

2 Likes
3627

yeah it’s not the best shot place, because that is long ways through the tracks. however, the churchill’s roof (NOTABLY NOT THE HATCH, THE ROUND PENS BEFORE THE HATCH IS THERE) is genuinely a ridiculous thing that russian players can even do.

3628

Cromwell V is smaller and faster which makes up for the 50 cal imo, and most SPAAs are open topped so you can still coax them. Though in general SPAAs feeling safe enough to push tanks is inherently indicative of a balancing problem but that’s not the discussion we’re having

3629

All I have to say is that you are very wrong about Japan. Japan is already over-tiered, and these proposed changes exacerbate Japan’s issues rather than balance its tech tree.

The Type 61 and ST-A3 both have weak armor and low survivability compared to the tanks they face, and the HEATFS they get is inconsistent and generally has poor post-pen damage, it is not OP, especially considering how squishy these tanks are.

You argument against the Type 60 SPRG makes no sense; you need to compare it against the M50, not the M56. The M50, meanwhile, is both smaller and has more armor, both in therms of thickness and not being open-top, which the Type 60 is, and the M50 can fire three times as many rounds before reloading, all at the same BR.

Type 99 is already a higher BR than the 2S19M1 with extremely similar HE performance, same reload, and similar protection, but the Type 99 has fewer available rounds but you don’t mention upping the 2S19M1’s BR. I don’t see any reason to increase the Type 99 either.

Ho-Ri prototype, on the one hand, maybe, it is pretty strong. But on the other hand, so is the Tiger II at the same BR and that gets both a full turret and a better-penning round. The Ho-Ri also has some significant weaknesses, such as very weak armor protecting the transmission, which is a much bigger issue in a case mate than a turreted tank. Also I don’t think the comparison to the Maus holds much water, as it has basically double the LFP and side thickness. So overall, I disagree; not knowing how to fight against a tank doesn’t make that tank strong.

And I also very much disagree about all type 90 MBTs. The 11.7 lineup already struggles in full uptiers. Its round is just barely good enough, and it’s armor is just barely good enough. Having only 3 crew instead of 4 also reduces its survivability, and while the T-80U at the same BR also only has 3 crew, it also gets ERA (not on the Type 90), a much better round (50mm more pen), and an ATGM. The Type 60’s mobility and reload are the only things that keep it competitive at its current BR, moving it up would kill it.

3630

You can do that in many tanks… not just Russian ones lol.

Also, the track trick only works if your shell has enough HE filler.

3631

longways through the tracks can overpressure but it will also just fuck up the crew even with solid shot. It’s like the M6/T1E1 vs the 17 pounder. A t-34-76 can very easily kill a Churchill VII via this method.

To pre-empt any potential misunderstanding: I am agreeing with xCrawley.
Comparing a casemate to the Maus is INSANE. The Ho-Ri in general is kind of annoying to shoot at frontally thanks to volumetric, but a less armored one is not comparable to the maus at all. I don’t think any casemates are comparable to the Maus. The Maus is a genuine balancing disaster, it’s only ok at 7.7 because it’s dead weight in uptiers and you may as well just close the game if you’re playing against it at 6.7, and overall nightmare to shoot at. The Ho-Ri is simply VERY GOOD. I never even SEE the Ho-Ri Prototype (Japan in general is relatively rare) so to say it deserves to go up is kind of ridiculous.

3632
  1. My list is a few years old, I update it periodically
  2. The Type 99 has very good mobility.
  3. I put the M50 at 7.3 and the Type 60 at 7.0
3633

Do you still think the conqueror deserves 8.0

3634

i have get 0.50caled from planes with the sta3 and type61

1 Like
3635

thats my problem he things that tanks like the Conqueror need to go high while the KV220 needs to go down, tanks like the IS-6 to go down and the HoRi Production to go up

3636

So personally I wouldn’t entirely opposed to the KV220 specifically going up to 6.3 based purely on how it looks but I don’t play enough 5.0 britain to actually know how annoying this thing is to shoot at volumetric wise. If BR compression wasn’t a problem, I do genuinely all of the medium and heavies in britain’s 7.7 pool could just drop to 7.3 no problem. Their ammo layout is genuinely atrocious (seriously, is a stablizer so good that the primary ammo rack HAS to be right next to the driver?) and in general they aren’t that much better armor-wise than the soviet or german things they have to contend with. The only potential problem I see with that is 6.3 uptiers but like, make the matchmaker better so that’s not as much of a problem lmao.

1 Like
3637

7.7 Britain is solid but not broken or bad, they have nothing that is needed to go down or up

3638

I agree with you 100%, I just also think that it’s not entirely fair for 7.7 britain to have to get full uptiered into 8.7 territory almost every game because so many Big 3 players are queuing into 8.7 that the matchmaker decides to make every game a full uptier. I recognize that’s not a britain exclusive problem but at the same time 8.7 is also home to some of the dumbest vehicles in the entire game (Turm III and T58 come to mind immediately). When all you have going for you is a full stab and you get full uptiered to where that’s common with everything, plus more on top of that, plus the premiums in the big 3 are ridiculous, it just becomes a genuinely miserable experience. This would also be very fixed by the matchmaker getting better but gaijin will never do that lmao. This is a very similar experience to queuing 4.0 britain actually thanks to the amount of shermen and soviet heavies above 4.0 giving constant uptiers.

3639

It still has its stabilizer right? So yes.

3640

all 7.7 suffers in full uptiers because they go to full stab apfsds zone