Ground Vehicles **PROPOSED** RB battle rating changes

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
2463

That’s true, though it depends on the range and how angled it is:

KV-220 is harder to do with, but it can go for the Cupola instead.

The Jumbo can’t easily kill the KV-220 frontally whereas the Jumbo can against the Panther(s).

For me it has considering it effectively requires you aim for center-mass shots.

Yeah, the King Tiger is quite difficult, though the way the Jumbo 76 spammers / T20 spammers kill them is through their cupola (though it’s kind of a hard shot, especially at close range):

It almost always guarantees a one-shot via ammo detonation, though.

I’m not entirely sure what it does (it doesn’t seem to do what it’s suppose to do?) but it’s there so that I can keep the shell straight, and not pointing downwards or upwards.
On level ground a round being shot further than ~200/300m would just about become level to the plate at which you are shooting at.

Edit: I see it now. This is for the protection map, so you are still forced to use your camera for individual shots.

2464

Jumbo may have a slightly tougher time against a kv-220 sure, but they’re going to struggle against one another equally.

Jumbo has the stab and reload, the kv-220 has the armor.

Panthers rare lose to a jumbo… unless they’re a typical german player and do the worst things possible lol.

Also a cupola shot on a jumbo is next to impossible to get to work.

2465

So Panther finds it easier to kill Jumbo whereas Jumbo finds it easier to kill Panther.
KV-220 finds it harder to kill Jumbo whereas Jumbo finds it harder to kill KV-220.
I don’t really see an issue here?

Yeah, and the KV-220 is 0.3 BR lower (same BR as the Panther) too.
Imagine if the Jumbo 76 was 6.0? And people think it should go lower…

Well, Jumbo 76mm is meta for 6.3 Squadron Battles and not the Panthers, so I’d say the Jumbos find it easier in most cases. The reason being the stab + 5.9s reload (like you said), along with the 24 degrees per second turret rotation speed (20 degrees per second with the Panther A / G, and only 15 degrees per second with the Panther F), all of which are more useful in CQC (and is what most WT maps are nowadays).

TTS / SRB players think otherwise.
¯\__(ツ)__/¯

2466

with a 2.6 second reload and rather strong turret armour

2467

VIDAR also has fast reload, so it really is just a fat VIDAR with no LRF or TVD

2468

VIDAR reloads in 6s at the best of times, which is more than 2x slower and it’s also the reload speed for only two rounds.

4 Likes
2469

We can go in circles all day long.

Jumbo = kv-220 (jumbo is 5.7)
Kv-220 = Tiger E / Tigris / Tiger west / East (but the kv-220 has 2 loaders yet the same reload, and lacks the some grenades, while having the commanders hatch weakness).
Panther is ≠ to the kv-220 (Panther is-arguably better, has better mobility, not really much frontal weakness, and a better gun, and smoke grenades, with neutral steer turning).

The panther G/F should def be 6.3

2470

The 5.7 jumbo against the KV-220 is abysmal.
In no way is the 5.7 Jumbo equal to the KV-220.

Maybe, but then again, KV-220 makes short work against the Tiger H1s because of how easy it is to snipe their cupolas / hull armour.
Tiger E doesn’t nearly have that big of a problem.
The Tiger E also doesn’t have as weak of a turret mantlet.

Like I said, move it up to 6.3 and give it a 6.7s reload.

So does every other tank other than the Germans.

Pretty difficult one at that. Tiger’s and Panther’s are much easier:
image

image
image1048×527 229 KB

If you can’t aim for the cupola (for some reason), the mantlets are easy to penetrate and deal damage to the crew too.

KV-220 is at least as good as the Panthers, if not better because of the much better armour, better one-shot capability, and survivability.

They aren’t that good…

The Jumbo 76 makes short work of either of them because most maps are close range.
If anything, the Tiger E / Tigris should go to 6.3 because any weakspot that they can find actually does a lot of damage.

1 Like
2471

Why would you nerf a tank that can’t do anything to 6.7s or 7.0s? Let alone 7.3s

Nah, the most logical is buff it reload or make it 5.7 again.

You are definitely over estimating it

2472

So can’t the Jumbo 76?
Should we lower it to 6.0?
Its armour is worse than the KV-220 anyways…

If it goes to 5.7 it’s literally just a better IS-1. Tell me one thing about the IS-1, other than reverse speed and slightly better gun handling, that is better than the KV-220.
Buffing its reload to 6.7 would make it too good for 6.0, and so it would warrant it being 6.3.

I don’t think so because I’m basing it on its raw capabilities and the performance of great players.

image
image1864×321 32 KB

image
image1470×717 181 KB

I mean, how is he getting a 5.9 KPS (which is Top 10 in the leaderboards) with a subpar vehicle (not even a balanced one)?
Surely it isn’t just skill alone that’s helping him achieve that.

What about this guy?

image
image1868×792 91.1 KB

Somehow he’s getting a 7.63 KPS with an overtiered vehicle.

2473

It also lacks any armour, which the T58 has a lot of, especially in a downtier

2 Likes
2474

VIDAR also has terrible gun handling, which the T58 does not.

2 Likes
2475

Giving it a 6.7 sec reload literally wouldn’t make it 6.3 worthy.

But the tank yourself and try it. Play it no matter the br like I do.

Tell me what you could kill, and what you couldn’t.

You’re also talking about pro players whom likely only spawn it in down tiers.

The E100 for example is a crazy tank, and very rare (like the kv-220) and as a result it’s kd is very high, but it’s the same br as a Maus despite having 3x the KDr.

2476

Doubt it considering their team positions are relatively high.

They play E100 because it’s a good tank. Why would they play a bad tank?

2477

XD

wtf logic is that? Team position is high so clearly they don’t play down tiers only?? What??

But why isn’t the E100 higher in br? Don’t dodge the question

2478

I don’t think you understand.
Most of these people one-spawn their tanks.
If they don’t spawn in when it’s a full uptier, their team position goes down since it is calculated based on the average team position every match.
image

Let’s say there’s 10 people on your team.
If you play 5 matches and 2 of them are full uptiers, you will have 2 of those matches be 10th place (0%)
Then let’s say they do really well on the other 3 non-full uptier matches because they are really good.
1st place on each of those 3 matches.

Their average team position won’t be 100% but 60%.

Most of the people I’ve been checking have at least ~80%, so unless they’re not getting uptiers in their KV-220 somehow, they’re not only playing in downtiers.

Here’s an example:
image

Here’s an example of a person only playing full down-tiers:
image

Gaijin being Gaijin?
Remember when I told you sample size (and quality) matters?
E-100 is a very special vehicle – only being able to be played by the best players or those that pay a lot of money.
As a result, the average user is really good, and therefore the E-100 only has 3100 games played throughout December, and is why you get such a disparity.
image

Looking at the Maus, it’s way less special, being able to be played by anyone who has at least Rank IV Germany researched. Though it’s still more special than popular premiums / tech tree vehicles, so its stats are slightly boosted as a result of the fact that its average players would typically be slightly more competent.

Now look at how many games have been played just this December:
image

No wonder it’s significantly lower than the E-100’s.
The average Maus player is garbage compared to the average E-100 player.
If an average player of equal skill played either of them, you’d see a much smaller difference, though the E-100 may still perform better because it’s more mobile.

Since I’ve answered your question, why don’t you answer mine?

2479

This is literally the crux of the issue, and the single worst way you could try to balance any tank that relies on it’s armor. Such vehicles are inherently very sensitive to the tier they’re played at, for obvious reasons. When combined with other factors like a weak gun or appalling mobility, it often results in a very binary experience when playing it. They effectively cannot be balanced in a way where they’re usable in uptiers without also being ridiculously dominant in downtiers.

So, for the sake of game health (And because, again, there is no-one standing behind you with a gun to your head, forcing you to spawn it in uptiers), the best way to balance such tanks is to balance them around downtiers.

This ensures the best chance that the tank is balanced for the vast majority of players.

This is a blatant “whataboutism”, but whatever, I’ll bite.

The E-100 is a tournament prize, and thus only given out to the very best players in the game. You basically cannot acquire it any other way.

The Maus merely requires reaching mid tier Germany and waiting. Any player can get it, even if they’re relatively new at the game.

Comparing the two head to head, the E-100 is basically just a Maus with better hull armor and marginally better mobility. It’s undeniably a straight upgrade, but enough for a full BR step? Obviously, having not played it, I can’t say for sure, but I’d wager not. It’s still hampered by being a slow, armor reliant heavy tank right at the very end of the armor meta. Were there decompression, sure, but as it stands now, there’s really no reason.

The KV-220, conversely, is a vehicle that was available in one of the earlier grinding events, and thus a lot of people got. It’s also available as a coupon from the SL crates, meaning there’s always a trickle of them available at all times.

Sure, it’s comparably harder to get a hold of than tech tree or premium tanks, which would inflate the statistics. But this only puts it into Class 3P/T-10A levels, not 279/IS-7 levels (Which are specifically much rarer drops from the SL crates).

2 Likes
2480

@UniqueScorpions-live
This guy gets it.

2481

I play bad tanks all the time lol.

But thank you for saying what I’ve been saying, high level, high experienced players made the kv-220 a 6.0, when it is by all means a 5.7

It either needs a reload buff to even have the minimalist of chances vs a KT or T29.

Or needs to once again be a 5.7

2482

You do but do you really think they’d play a bad tank?
That’s quite naive in my opinion.