Force this option to NO and SIM would be instantly more immersive and realistic with nearly zero development effort.
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Wouldn’t you say Red Orchestra 2 offers an authentic tank simulator experience - especially in a proper squad with voice, given each crew position can be fulfilled by a separate player? Aiming the gun is still easier than it should be for a WW2 tank, but there is a massive emphasis on cooperation, communication and intuition.
I’ve played Red Orchestra 2, and of the limited old manual transmissions I’ve used.
It’s clunkier than that.
Turret’s control method is also too clunky.
Otherwise it’s decent.
Another thing - you have made a point that nobody desires the exact control interface for simulators.
It’s a very out there one, and likely unknown - but Sailwind’s selling point is exactly that it simulates controlling a sailing vessel with its running rigging and having ropes, winches and controls for each sail that you personally need to adjust (it takes liberties in allowing a single individual to somehow tack a large square sail when IRL you’d end up calling the equivalent of general quarters to get enough sailors for tacking a large vessel in a stable and controlled manner).
None the less, its selling point remains the control fidelity and getting to directly experience what interfacing with a certain object does to the vehicle. It’s an incredibly thrilling experience to build an arguably unstable watercraft optimized for incredible speeds, get caught in a storm and survive only by the skin of your teeth and intimate familiarity with what each and every rope on your boat does, and how it affects heeling and thus, stability.
Or alternatively taking a largely non-maneuverable, heavy vessel down a narrow channel and avoiding running aground by pulling off tighter turns using the right application of rope tightness to get your sails to rotate your boat faster than just the rudder could using the helm.
It also leans into clunkiness in other ways by demanding the use of simple quadrants and chronometers for navigation rather than more modern instruments (introducing an anachronism where you can sail brigs and brigantines without sextants being available, while chronometers can be obtained at a hefty price). It is another of the game’s big draws for me: learning to recognize stars and manually take readings with rudimentary tools of earlier sailors to fix my position.
Sailwind fills for me a simulation itch no other sail sim has managed - every sail sim focuses on the Captain experience, of simply ordering the sails to be managed, of simply demanding the boat be turned in a direction and instead focusing on warfare or trade. Sailwind has trade, but only as a universally understood justification to get you to take risks with heavy cargo, and to visit new places.
Kerbal Space Program mods also echo this. Moardv’s avionics system and raster prop monitor alongside ALCOR pods enable players to fully experience an apollo-like mission entirely from the cockpit, entirely using dials and switches you click on and manipulate with the mouse rather than abstracted away with a keyboard.
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For a start to improve sim and seperate it from RB.
Sim is not sim any more and I was hoping that over time it gets better but noting changed at all.
- Force graphics and sound setting for all players in a battel to be the same.
You cant remove your own sounds in RL or set your vision to UQL to see and hear more.
you cant have one guy looking from his tank barrel while the other one shoots from the gunners persicope.
All players have to be on the same game board and not every oen doing its sperate thing.
Let RB and arcade players do what they want, yes this might alinate or keep players that with very bad computers away but in a competetive game that is “skill” based you need a level playing field.
Tanks are very loud you cant remove your own sound to echolocate a enemy. There is no risk only reward.
(MOST IMPORTANT) 2. If sim stands for simulation and the intend is replicate reality then we can not, have not direct control over our mashines. Tanks, Helicopters, Ships. Each player is one person and can only controll one station. The mashines are multicrew operations.Crew skill and crews in general are nothing more then a number and could also be removed at this point as they are usles. I dont feel a crew, I dont command as a tank commander nothing. I am, we are the tank. This means like in naval you rather tell the crew what to do. So if you want to drive foward you giv ethe comand to the driver. Forward, depending on crew skill , he will start reacting. You want to go left you have to tell him and it will be done with a delay and so forth. The gunner gets a zone designated and will engae targets that are visibel or shoot at what the commander tells him to shoot. This way crew skills are more important. The player can swith postions to have direct control at the cost of needing to switch that needs time and the postion he maned before being now automated.
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Interiors. As in air sim this needs to be in ground sim. Ergonomics and systems for situational awarnes are key factor. every tank is the same there is no diffrence. This is the key point that makes tank sim be like RB. Same aiming retciel same 3rd person camander postion. Tank interior, vision ports ergonomics make not just for cool models but also infulance the style of how you use a tank. How often have some pilots lost track of a enemy because he was behind soem struds or was obstructed by interior while this owuld not happend in other airplanes that have diffrent designed cockpits.
Interiors make the diffrence. -
Like in enlisted the comander if peeking has to be visibel and shooteble. no more peeeking over a hill while staying invisbel to the enemy with binoculars. Risk vs reward.
Thast for a start to sperate Sim from RB. Keep RB and arcade as you see fit or what ever goofy things you come up. Sim should strife to be as close to RL as it can get.
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Graphics I’m kind of on the fence about that, but would like to agree. For sounds I feel like they shouldn’t even be adjustable except for master volume in the first place.
This is a sim topic, so this isn’t really a problem.
I agree with this whole paragraph. I feel like this is fairly appropriate.
I’m not too sold on tank interiors, but historically accurate reticals would be a fantastic QoL update. Vision obscurities need to be a bit more common.
Agreeable
I think something else that needs to be added is more factors that can affect your tank, like barrel collision or broken optics affecting vision. I would think this would make tank gameplay differentiate itself enough.
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I agree also it would be benifcial if threes and lampost and other obstacels could nto just be rolled over without aa problem. It would counter bot players woods would become harder to naivagte but not imossible. Yes teh danguer of getting stuck there for a littel and not being abele to do 360 is a good trade for arial cover. also not being able to race throu them as if they where not there.
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also add that grass in gunner and comander sight is always on. Its diffrent feeling and game. Concealment gets even more powerfull. Also a server site setting that should be forced on every one. It benfits every side and helps smaller vehicels to play ther strengths out.
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Which remonds me:
Bring back proper crash damage for tanks.
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yep, sometimes when I drive to fast against a wall in WT my tracks get yellow or a littel demaged would be cool if you can get detrackt.
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It should be far worse. 50kph to zero with no seatbelt is very deadly. Even at 30kph deadly injuries can occur.
In WT you can crash at 50kph into a large rock with your crew uninjured. That’s just a joke.
And of course the tank will likely be damaged. Players are lucky the barrel phases through objects(which is a joke as well)
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I remember times when crash like that would kill half of your crew, when hitting a rock or a tree stump would drop your track.
Unfortunately SB shares too much logic with RB, separating such features = cost. RB players cried about those and those features were removed. RB players are the reason we have small maps, the sniping spots are getting removed from maps.
We should demand separation from RB players who destroy our SB game mode.
In terms of controls, what I proposed already over 8 years ago, to make SB more of a simulation:
- remove ability to shoot in 3rd person (aka commander view )
- remove small aiming circle from HUD in commander view
- make commander view controls behave the same as in binocular view - click to tell gunner to rotate gun at that specific direction, the gun does not follow large circle automatically
- adjust FOV for AAA gunsights
Graphic and gameplay mechanics:
- when gunsight is damaged, draw cracked glass, make it look damaged and difficult to use
- tanks where commander is a loader - don’t reload a gun when in commander view
- commander is dead - no commander view anymore
- tanks where commander is also a gunner - gun cannot be moved when in commander view (he could not reach controls when outside of a hatch)
Those are the simplest changes requiring least effort to make sure SB is more realistic.
Further changes requiring more work:
- modify each tank model in game to have a commander model sticking out of commander hatch
- simple animation, hatch opens/closes commander model moves up/down, the “hole” around the commander is simply black void. the animation should run for reasonable time (3-4 seconds)
- commander out in a hatch is vulnerable
- don’t implement interior view, instead implement generic commander sights - cupolas with multiple port holes, periscopes - those would simply be black screen with cut out for a specific sight with correct FOV
- modern tanks already have commander sights
- binoculars only available in commander out position
- implement realistic gun stabilizer - current one allows to rotate turret faster than the turret rotation speed and is the same mechanic across all tanks benefiting tanks which had bad stabilizers in real life, like soviet ones.
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You are preaching to the choir.
I would even go further with the gun handling. I wouldn’t allow mouse aim at all. Not even in gunner view.
Do we aim with our minds?
No with the mouse, just not through the “mouse aim” system where the instructor does the actual work.
GHPC has a system that is actually realistic and this is very similar to “mouse joystick” which is the same system that mouse and kewyboard players need to use in sim air… so it is fair and equal to the other sim players.
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Yes mouse joystick for all tanks which had “heavy” turret. However for all “light” ones where gunner could move the gun “by hand” and not crank the control wheels, I believe direct mouse control should stay…
Now thinking about it that includes sdkfz 221 and Gaz AAA and roof mounted MGs on tanks.
Can you imagine how drastically this would change gameplay? No more fast tanks run and gun like it was an arcade first person shooter.
Oh one thing - the roof mounted MG on most tanks would only be accessed when commander was out of the hatch and not inside. No more .50cal MG saves a sherman from some light car, when commander and gunner is dead.
We would drown in tears of all arcade lovers.
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Which have no place in sim anyway.
i am all for it. This is what i wished for back when tanks were announced.
There are a lot of em in ground sim. Sometimes I think, all they need is markerless WoT.
This isnt going to work for a number of reasons, one of which really is accessibility. Y’all are already the least popular ground gamemode, doing this would alienate more people you can sore afford to lose. Locking people out due to there hardware is even worse and Gaijn will never do it.
This in paticular will cause anyone walking in yo be very dissuaded, especially given its massive difference from RB. Even in air sim you still control the aircraft- even in bombers.
I get what you are asking for, but WT just aint the place for it.
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In air sim you controll only oen staion at a time.
You dont pilot the bomber and aima nd shoot the deensive guners all at the same time.
alianting RB and arcade players dont matter tehy are here for the RP and SL not for the chlanage.
I lose the few rnd´s and gain whole new expirance that you got no where else. not for that price and not with taht amount of vehciels and eras. some come some go.
change is not for every one.
not that i am fond of RB and AB players coming to sim and poluting it wither egame styles and exploits. This kind of things have no place in sim. in other game modes ok but not here.