Heavy tanks.
Entrenched tank destroyers.
Entrenched campers that cannot be directly engaged.
Many maps have designs that a camper can entrench themselves in and be near completely immune to return fire. Anyone having the gall to claim otherwise is a dirty liar.
Another tired and Poor argument. Gaijin would never make a mode where an entire tech line of vehicles is stuck sitting on it’s hands. You have the gall to exclude ground vehicles in the very TO mode you demand? Foolish and narrow-minded beyond words, just like the petulant screeching for a TO mode.
Any examples of particular vehicles in action ?
I don’t use planes but I’ve never had issues dealing with heavies or TDs.
By the way, if someone is shooting at you means you’re able to shoot back at him, so something being directly un-engageable is really far fetched.
Or just might be decent at playing ground vehicles ?
SPAA → self-propelled anti-aircraft
They’ve been added to the game simply because aircraft exists, not to mention the fact most of them can engage ground units as well, with some being even better as an AT weapon than AA, which is quite ironic.
Any heavy tank. Literally any. I do not need to elaborate. And no, many maps have terrain that is sloped just enough where players can lob shots and be near immune to return fire. I know from personal experience so I will tell you outright that anyone claiming otherwise is a filthy liar.
SPAA are still tracked or wheeled chassis vehicles that exist on the ground.
Entirely moot point. Are you done lying and trying to move goal posts or should I just send you to the shadowrealm so my time isn’t wasted by your bullshit?
I destroyed heavies that are considered to be really, really good from the front in vehicles that are below or at their BR, where’s the issue with them ?
Let me quickly lob shots at someone 250m away on our 1x1km maps, that isn’t happening mate.
But please do tell what vehicles can do that, I’m all ears (or eyes in this situation).
Their existence in the game is solely based on a fact that aircrafts exist. They are the vehicle type that’s already the closest to abandonware status, considering Gaijin is reluctant to add premium SPAAs which makes me to believe even they know people don’t care about that vehicle type, mostly because they are often quite trashy and unfun to people.
So yeah, I do think they can either stay or go, won’t matter much since their importance will remain as is with our current GRB mode.
You know something is in a dire state when even Gaijin doesn’t think they can make any literally any money by selling their premiums lol.
So can I, but what you or I can do to or in Heavies isn’t the center of the point - It’s the vehicles themselves. There are some specific BR dependent nuances but not every vehicle that sees a Heavy tank is able to destroy let alone cripple it. Thus, CAS comes into play as that specific nutcracker. It’s Rock-Paper-Scissors.
250m is small potatoes to 700m+, which is something derp cannons specialize in. Large cannons with heavy shells can also do it, aswell as low velocity guns. Takes learning but is entirely doable.
Are you forgetting the 2S38? The light tank designation is ahistorical and the only nerf it has. IRL it is classified as SPAA.
Additionally, if you have a skill issue using spaa you can just aswell spawn a fighter instead. If you suck with both, well, Git Gud. Simple as.
“Just spawn something that can lolpen it bro”.
Jokes aside, heavy tanks are often hilariously slow with pretty long reloads, so flanking them is a viable option. I seriously don’t see where your grievance with heavies come from.
Except heavies can be countered by dozes of ground units at their BR range.
It’s not an SPAA in game, so I’m not counting it.
Also, light tank designation isn’t a nerf in it’s case, since you’ll get access to scout drone, which is basically a legitimate wallhack if used correctly. So you’re trading some SP cost for that.
If ground units are helpless against air and only way to counter them is to spawn another air unit, that’s where your RPS game falls apart.
Depends on the heavy tank. Additionally you have tanks like the KT2H, T34 and IS-3 that have hard to crack turrets and are a menace hulldown. I’m not making a greivance, I’m making a point why CAS has value. As for their counters other than CAS, depends on the vehicle and the match BR.
The in-game dsignation is ahistorical. It’s also undertiered but that’s for a different discussion. For a " light tank " it’s one of the most obnoxiously capable anti-air platforms in the game. It’s unfortunately very Pay2Win.
The RPS only has issues when it comes to top tier. Everyone knows this. For example, we have Russia that has spaa that creates no-fly zones with the most busted CAS that wipes teams in short order against nations that either lack parity in one or more departments or have nothing at all. However, those balance issues aren’t because of the mode - the failure lies at Gaijin’s feet for not doing their due diligence in ensuring technological parity between nations.
I don’t know about you, but I think heavies should have hard to crack armor.
That being said, all those heavies you mentioned above have plethora of enemies at or even below their BR that can deal with their armor effortlessly, so CAS isn’t their only enemy, that’s been purposely put there to be their one and only counter.
I won’t discuss 2S38 here because there are already active threads about it.
I was just making a remark that Gaijin knows something’s up with SPAAs so they are reluctant to add even copy paste premium vehicles, which require minimal effort and are basically free cash.
Currently, we have only one purchasable premium SPAA that’s been added 9 years ago. There’s that Russian Phong Kong that was a premium vehicle obtainable in the 2017 event.
Not really.
Air vehicles (especially helicopters) are outranging SPAAs in plenty of tiers.
Even now they are hard to crack. APDS is near worthless. Solid shot AP and APCR are worthless. HEAT and HEATFS are unreliable in terms of post-pen. I could name more tanks but those I mentioned are tech tree and present in every match. If the shell types meant to combat them were working correctly I could accept your argument but as the game state is currently I just don’t agree.
As for that bit, agreeable. To discuss it further will take us off the topic.
It’s BR dependent, and only at top tier does the IRCCM/ECM come into play that forces manpad platforms to attempt knife fights just to get to them - something we all know needs adjustments.
I’ll say this much and then I’m finished for today. This isn’t World of Tanks and Gaijin has zero intention of making this game like it.
We can agree that we need more SPAA.
We can agree that SPAA needs some positive and historical buffs.
We can agree that CAS loadouts need higher SP costs depending on loadout.
We can agree on Fighter aircraft with A2A loadouts should be cheaper.
All of the above is reasonable and achievable.
But demanding a copycat mode of World of Tanks just because you hate dying to CAS?
Unreasonable and unachievable.
So as they should be. If you take a look at the most higher tier heavies, you can see what happens when their armor is less than being hard to crack. They absolutely suck and hardly anyone wants to use them.
I haven’t used APCR much so I can’t comment on that one.
Currently I’m using 76mm APDS on British 5.3 vehicle and it’s more than capable to kill 3+ crew in one shot. Of course, it’s not on the level of APHE’s sphere of death, but I had no issues disabling and killing enemies with it.
From my experience, HEAT is better than APDS on <90mm calibers, afterwards APDS has substantial advantage.
HEAT from vehicles at around those BRs where heavies you mentioned sit, allows you to lolpen those heavies so in my opinion it’s a worthy tradeoff.
If HEAT’s post penetration was to be buffed, then slingers around WW2 era would have to move up substantially. As I said, I think tradeoff between penetration and damage is in a decent place right now.
Helicopters with ATGMs that have 3.75km+ range basically shit on most gun based SPAAs around their BR range.
Same thing is applicable for most IR-based SPAAs, since they are also outranged by helicopters with basic ATGMs.
Planes aren’t much better either, they will get access to guided munitions as early as 8.7 so putting them at the same BR as gun based SPAA is ridiculous. IR-based missiles aren’t really effective against those threats as well.
Or maybe because I have no interest in playing a game mode with aircraft in it ?
We already have a copycat mode of World of Warplanes in Air RB, but who cares, right ?
You completely /whooshed the point I made. At no point did I say “Ground only should exist because air only exists” and that wasn’t my point and still isn’t.
Maybe you would know what my point actually was if you, you know, read it. Instead of admitting you didn’t and that you just hallucinated it instead. Wacky idea, I know. It’s still there whenever you’re ready if you’re an honest discussant ^
This graph isn’t entirely correct.
SPAAs are the best anti light vehicles, they’re even better than MBTs at that.
Plus it ignores the fact that tanks represents the largest amount of players in ground battles, giving CAS a larger advantage.