Greece - Israel

[AspandaIV]

greece isnt only m48 and f16

Where ever Greece has more than m48’s and f16’s doesn’t really matter since Gaijin will only add M48’s and F16 because they have a bad habit of adding in copy n paste vehicles to fill in the gaps instead of adding in actually unique vehicles or unique vehicle upgrades

Greece and Cyprus are closer geographically than Azerbaijan to Israel

Doesn’t matter since they are in the same region

Azerbaijan isnt big enough

Maybe for Naval. For the rest of the lines this is otherwise flat out false, Azerbaijan has more than enough for a subtree. Azerbaijan also use a lot of Israeli equipment such as Sandcat armed with SPIKES, Barak 8’s, Iron Dome, ATMOS-2000, IAI built recce drones such as the Heron and Searcher and Sa’ar 62 class patrol boats to name a few. Even a lot of their weapons that they inherited from the USSR were upgraded by the USSR, their T-72’s were modified by Elbit, same for their BTR-70’s, they also have an unique prototype variant with a 30mm cannon (BTR-70M). Elbit is one of the firms in modernizing Azerbaijan’s fleet of Shilka’s. Their BMP-2’s were upgraded by NIMDA, Azerbaijani Mi-17’s were modified to use LAHAT ATGM’s.

Of course there’s going to be plenty of Soviet Slop in there too but also some unique vehicles (ZKDM Armoured Car) and unique upgrades (Su-25’s with Israeli and Turkish secondary weapons, as well as the previously mentioned BTR-70M) Azerbaijan also operates Su-25KM’s which were co-developed by Elbit with Kartvelia. Naval as previously stated is a weakspot and this is an area Chile would be a great compliment to an Israeli TT will be. Even there they can still contribute and again some of their ships are Israeli made. Chile is also at the end of the day is still the best Subtree for Israel. It’s just Azerbaijan is another good option

? were greece has the capacity to fill the gaps

I never said about filling in gaps, I was talking about vehicle variety

[Pipimer]

@AspandaIV

Where ever Greece has more than m48’s and f16’s doesn’t really matter since Gaijin will only add M48’s and F16 because they have a bad habit of adding in copy n paste vehicles to fill in the gaps instead of adding in actually unique vehicles or unique vehicle upgrades

Greece has only 1 m48 that could get in game

@AspandaIV

F16 because they have a bad habit of adding in copy n paste vehicles to fill in the gaps instead of adding in actually unique vehicles or unique vehicle upgrade

and what unique aircraft can Chile or Azerbaijan provide?

@AspandaIV

Doesn’t matter since they are in the same region

NO? Azerbaijan is a Caucasian country while Israel is middle eastern

@AspandaIV

Maybe for Naval. For the rest of the lines this is otherwise flat out false, Azerbaijan has more than enough for a subtree. Azerbaijan also use a lot of Israeli equipment such as Sandcat armed with SPIKES, Barak 8’s, Iron Dome, ATMOS-2000, IAI built recce drones such as the Heron and Searcher and Sa’ar 62 class patrol boats to name a few. Even a lot of their weapons that they inherited from the USSR were upgraded by the USSR, their T-72’s were modified by Elbit, same for their BTR-70’s, they also have an unique prototype variant with a 30mm cannon (BTR-70M). Elbit is one of the firms in modernizing Azerbaijan’s fleet of Shilka’s. Their BMP-2’s were upgraded by NIMDA, Azerbaijani Mi-17’s were modified to use LAHAT ATGM’s.

so copy paste too??

@AspandaIV

I never said about filling in gaps, I was talking about vehicle variety

so Greece can offer German, American and soviet while Azerbaijan can only soviet. Azerbaijan is better for a Turkish TT

[Chilean_Thunder]

I don’t think Greece is a bad option; it’s just that there’s a better option, which was Chile. Chile is very similar to what Greece offers, but with the added benefit of having vehicles manufactured or modified by Israel. Gaijin chose Greece simply because it has vehicles to fill the top tier. If Chile had had slightly better tanks and planes, the story would have been very different. If Gaijin really wanted Greece, I would have added it only to fill specific gaps, like the aforementioned top tier, or scattered across various tech trees, like what they’ll do with Singapore. I would have left Chile as the main sub-tree. The other option was to add a mix of Chile and Greece, since it offers more than Cyprus. I understand why you defend Greece, since it’s your country, and I would be just as excited as you if Gaijin had chosen my country, but I’m trying to be objective.

[Chilean_Thunder]

@Pipimer

and what unique aircraft can Chile or Azerbaijan provide?

You can check all my suggestions for Chilean subtrees; everything is specified there. But in short, I think the most unique would be:

The A-37B Dragonfly with Israeli Shafrir II missiles, even though it’s an American vehicle, is not yet in the game.

the Hawker Hunter Aguila, which has RWR, countermeasures, and Israeli Shafrir II missiles, which is quite unique.

Another option could be the A-36 Toqui, a fighter jet similar to the Alpha Jet, manufactured in Chile and also modernized and equipped with Israeli Shafrir II missiles.

The Mirage 50C armed with Shafrir II missiles, which was only acquired by Chile

The Mirage 50CN Pantera, modernized by Israeli companies, carries Shafrir II and Python III missiles.

The F-5E Plus, which was a modernization by Israeli companies, has Python III missiles and an ELTA EL/M 2032B radar.

The F-5E Tiger III Plus, one of the best in the world similar to the Thai Super Tigris, also carries Python III and Python IV missiles.

And finally, the F-16C/D Block 50+ Late, both of which use Israeli weaponry and even fire Python IV missiles, something I haven’t seen on any other F-16 in the world that isn’t Israeli.

I only mentioned those closely related to Israel, but the list is very long. I’d like you to make a list of Greek tanks and aircraft that have a connection to Israel so we can add some links between Israel and Greece in terms of vehicles. The truth is, I don’t know much about Greek vehicles beyond what I see on the forum.

[Pipimer]

with all the respect all of them arent unique with the same logic Greece can offers too, I understand that Chile is was closer to Israel but Chile would be better for the South American TT

[Chilean_Thunder]

You could give somewhat better arguments, don’t you think?

[Akizyro]

@Pipimer

all of them arent unique with the same logic Greece can offers too

What? Chile has a long history with Israel, with plenty of modifications done by Israel via IAI and others. The only thing Greece has done like that with a vehicle modification that would make sense in game would be the proposed M113 upgrades. Aside from that, nothing mayor pops up my mind. Other nations like Germany did more with Phantom and Leopard upgrades iirc (I am not saying it should go to Germany).

As already said, they have done plenty of mods, including weapon integration for aircraft that could not carry said weapon originally. I cannot remember Israel modifying a Greek aircraft by giving it new weapons, radar, etc. to it.

[Pipimer]

AH-64, multiple SPAA systems i know its not a lot but Greece is Israel biggest ally in eastern Mediterranean

[Akizyro]

Mind giving examples stating that they got mayor modifications?

[Navy_Phantom]

Greece and Israel has signed mutual defence contract, they’re both in the blue (western) pack, where else did you expect them to be added? And Israel does need a subtree, Greece makes perfect sense.

[Pipimer]

Ok, Greece can offer more to the Israeli Heli TT (more AH-64 variants, Kiowa warriors, UH-1, mi35, eurocopters or whatever their name is ), in the air tree can offer same low tier planes that i dont remember exact names, Helldivers, F80, F86, F104, F5, F4, F16 , Mirages, F16, Rafales (with a lot of variants), in the ground TT same low tier british tanks, M8, M24, m60, leo1,leo2,m60,m48,amx30,t80,leonidas, bmp1, crotale, tor m1, osa mk, asradd hellas, (with many variants and a lot more ), We can agree that both countries can be good subtrees to Israel, Greece has more diversity while Chile has more Israeli systems. Overall i believe Greece can offer more to Israeli TT, specially if they add naval (personal opinion)

[Got_a_choppa]

I just want merkava armor buff

[Pipimer]

The AH-56 got spikes, radar and other electronics, they are in talks about a huge pack for anti air weapons, and Israeli companies owns ELVO a “Greek” defense company

[Pipimer]

Yea someone should say to gaijin that 20 tons of armor are missing

[Chilean_Thunder]

As I said before, Chile and Greece offer similar things. In naval terms, Chile also had super dreadnoughts, just like Greece, so they’re tied there. The difference lies in the fact that Chilean vehicles in air, land and sea are more closely related to Israeli designs than the Greek ones, and that’s all.

[Got_a_choppa]

Or the fact it’s been an accepted report for the last 3 years that the armor values are to low/mislabeled. Crazy how the community points out the discrepancies in its armor and they turn around and nerf the roof armor to make sure lmurs one tap it. And then get the idea that leopards are the answer for top tier competitiveness for Israel’s botched armor modeling.

[Chilean_Thunder]

If we count the number of vehicles modified or manufactured in Israel, Chile beats Greece by a landslide, and that’s a fact.

[Pipimer]

@Pipimer

while Chile has more Israeli systems

i know i said it and above

[Pipimer]

no gaijin should fix first the Merkavas the only tank build to keep the crew safe make it more survivable, and then put non isreali tanks

[GranColombia]

I’m subtly reinforcing the idea that Chile is a better subtree for Israel TT if it’s also complemented by Colombia (which is already in Israel TT).
Air
Kfir C.10 (Kfir 2000 like the Ecuadorian one)
Mirage M5 COAM (Unique and improved by Israel)
F-86-25 and CL-13 Sabre
F-80
P-47-30 RE
JAS-39 Gripen E/F (From 2027 but possibly armed with Python 5 and I-Derby-ER, Spice 1000/2000 etc.)
Helicopters
AH-60L “Arpía IV” (Unique and with Israeli technology and armament, also previous variants)
Bell-212 “Rapaz”
Hughes-500
Ground
LAV III “Gladiador” (With Israeli armament)
EE-09 Cascavel (Modernized by Colombia)
HMMWE (With Spike or Mistral missiles)
Barak MX
Abir Nimrod (With Israeli Nimrod anti-tank missiles)
Navy
Almirante Padilla Class (Unique)
PAF-III (Unique)
There are many I’m forgetting, but these could fully complement Chile as a Subtree. In fact, even Colombia has better synchronization with Israel TT than Greece or Cyprus.