tornado f3 late, f4 ice, j37di avb8+ exist in the game in the same br taking more missiles than j8f, stop crying
AV-8B+ is subsonic so I wouldnt include that. Typically subsonics get an advantage over their supersonic contemporaries at the same BR
and the Viggen DI only gets 9Ls, so no IRCCM.
Tornado F3 Late and F-4F ICE though both should be a higher BR. F3 Late im fighting to get buffs like BOL overhaul and Phimat pods that would quite happily allow it to go up, but the ICE is kinda screwed
I don’t know about the F4F ICE man, putting it at the same BR as something like the F16 ADF would be nutty. It’s one these planes that are really hard to balance but I’d say any fox 1 launchers at 13.0 are definitely better, specially the 27ER users.
Eh… Its tricky
F-16 ADFs at 13.3 dont get IRCCM. So in a dogfight they would be relying on guns and would win, but in a lot of other respects the F-4F ICE probably would hold the advantage. It also has double the CMs
Though overall the F-16A ADF are probably stronger purely because of their FM, but I dont think enough that them being the same BR would actually be that much of an issue
But the problem is when you compare the F4F ICE with a lot of the other 13.0 Fox-3 aircraft, like the Sea Harrier FA2 and Viggen DI. Its a LOT stronger. Its probably stronger than the AV-8B+ and even the J-8F most of the time. Its only true equal is the F3 Late which trades FM for a stronger defensive suite (that can get a LOT stronger)
What really needs to happen is that all 13.3 and up aircraft need to have a BR increased by 0.3 and then 13.0 aircraft split between 13.0 and the now vacant 13.3 BR. Tornado F3 Late, and F4F ICE would definetly be at 13.3, though so would the SU-27, Su-33 and the F-15A to name but a few of the other aircraft that would likely move.
But the current situation isnt tenable and actually quite unfair when you try to play somehting like the Sea Harrier FA2, esepcially in SB
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But the problem with the Harrier at 13.0 is not its perfomance but the armament, same exact thing as F4F ICE. I wouldn’t find the difference significatively enough to warrant a BR difference in the current status of matchmaking since Fox 3 are about as effective on both aircraft. On paper, sure, a mach 2 F4F ICE at 10 KM altitude would be in a better position to drop some fox 3 than the Harrier, but that is just not practical for such an old airframe at that BR and hence why I say any 27ER user is better. I would say that both the Harrier and F4F ICE would need to go up when the BR gets less compressed.
No, they are no where close to each other.
AMRAAM fired from a Harrier is probably weaker than an Aim-54 fired by the F-14A at 12.7.
Also, the ICE gets a Gun, 4x Aim-9Li and 4x Aim-120. Sea Harrier gets 4x Aim-120. No gun and no IR missiles at all in that config
They should be at least 0.3 BR apart
While you might have a point, I would also say that F4F ICE should also be at 0.3 BR apart from things like F16 ADF/MLU/Barak and MiG 29 SMT; if all BRs were going to go up - as I said, more decompression - then I would say it would be good to move the F4F-ICE at 13.3 and the others I mentioned to 13.7 and the ones above even further. That would probably leave the Harrier and the Mirage 4000 as the only 2 planes that are 13.0 worthy, if that, and this change would probably also warrant some 12.7 and below to go up.
Just balancing some selected vehicles is not real balance IMHO that is.
As I said
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Sorry I missed that, I’m hungry right now but I think we both kinda agree.
The question becomes. In the absence of a decompression. What is the lesser of 2 evils. ICE, F3 Late and now maybe J-8F at 13.0 or 13.3
(probably throw in things like the Su-27 and Su-33 as well)
All I see related to the ICE if you ask to any WT player is suffering. I don’t think there is widespread issue of any 13.0 seaclubbing lower BRs, with the exception of course of the 27ET users. No 1.0 uptier is fair but I’d say that there are so few 13.0-13.3 vehicles right now that I don’t think it would be the right time to do it.
The issue imo, is the 12.0s. You shouldnt have something like the FGR2 with Skyfalsh DFs fighting an ICE with AMRAAMs
gripen with AIM-7E-2
But like, can you pick any vehicle starting from 7.0 and up in which any vehicle a whole BR above it is fair to fight?
-7.0/7.3 fight Sabres and MiG 15
-8.0/8.3 fight supersonics with IR and radar missiles
-9.0/9.3 fight mach 2 aircraft with flares and real big loadouts
-10.0/10.3 is where you start fighting planes whose missiles can rarely be evaded anymore without countermeasures and with a better performance in every regard (some 10/10.3 don’t even have flares!)
-11.0/11.3 fights long range radar missiles that prevent anyone that stops hugging the ground from living
-12.0/12.3 fight aircraft from 1-2 generations ahead (as do all BRs below) but with an enormous difference in performance and loadout, such as Fox 3 or ultra fast-long range missiles that must be notched
-13.0/13.3 the gap in performance is even bigger but the gap in armament stops being consistent
I don’t play props anymore but I’m assuming that it happens there too. Any attempt to move a single plane to the previous or next BR without correctly balancing the ones above it is just complete madness right now. Why move 1 plane and not more?
I see what you mean but it’s exaggerated, the real threat at this BR is the DF sparrow and you can plan around it in most cases.
It’s often just as bad if not worse, the whole yak family is undertiered and pressuring whole BR’s, the P51H5 is grossly overpowered, YAK3U is also stupid broken…
Most of all though the problem are the teams you get, people who can’t be fucked to learn props and who want to get to jets asap, pushing headons, dying dumb and leaving you 1v7 which is already painful enough in a good prop but if youre flying something off meta might as well land and j out.
There’s also a massive problem in ARB of completely unbalanced team composition with one side getting the best high BR’d vehicles, and the other side getting the same amount of high BR stuff but worthless. In props this manifests in one side stacked with useless bomber and attackers and the other team stacked with meta fighters.
And R23/R24, some have R27, Matra 530F, and probably others from Sweden/China/Israel that I don’t know about. Any of these missiles can kill anyone coming in your direction from at least 10KM away.