Glaring problem with the game that (Mostly) favors Russia

[Armen_Lozone]

True.
Soviet armour has proven effective but they haven’t exactly made strides in innovation to upgrade or update it.
Hence why at its introduction it overperforms but when other nations catch up its merely mediocre

[Hirosava_Ui]

@DocUSMC

Not true with a lot of people buying premiums and using them to skip ranks.

And even more people not using them lol. And well… They are using premium vehicles, which means… Much more crew points.

@DocUSMC

Because they aren’t russian. That is how this game works.

Ah, surely not because they have STOCK APFSDS, yeah, yeah. I guess Type 74 having APFSDS at TIer 1 means its Russian.

@DocUSMC

It is 7.5, and if you account for russian propaganda (just pay attention to the Ukraine war) its likely much slower.

“Muh, Russian propaganda”.

@DocUSMC

Correct about reload

Nope

@DocUSMC

correct about not having to grind as hard for modules

Nope

@DocUSMC

correct about being able to skip crew points.

Nope.

@DocUSMC

Watch the video. And it isn’t the only one showing this issue.

I literally watched first minute. In first minute your words are being prooven false. I dont need to watch it more, LOL.

@DocUSMC

Which is why its a problem. Their is no balance with a downside.

There is balance.

@DocUSMC

Again watch the entire video. NATO tank dies 12 out of 12 times, russian tank not so much.

Cause you hit one round in T-series and several rounds in a row in Challenger. Its quite obvious. (and yet again, T-series blew up with first round shot most of the times anyway)
Oh, and well, simple recorded battle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlnBWOg6l4g&ab_channel=K2KitKrabiwe
And whole video with test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0pQc_EllrY&ab_channel=K2KitKrabiwe

@DocUSMC

Both are 60% increases. So it would be equal opportunity.

Ratio

@DocUSMC

We are missing tons of anti-era rounds in NATO tanks

Eh? 1 or 2 is ton?

@DocUSMC

While russian vehicles are over loaded with choices

And they are worse or on par with current ammo in the game, whats this arguement about?

@DocUSMC

And I will add, I play tanks with auto loaders and I think auto loaders should be a module. You see this is what an unbias opinion looks like. You should try it.

You clearly biased against Soviets MBTS. Cause you mentioning them the most, title of topic have them in it. But you are not taking into account that majority of autoloaders arent in soviet tree nor into major TTs.

[Armen_Lozone]

the issue with russian autoloader ammunition not blowing up is due to a list of factors:

• shell calibre (dont try to use 30-60mmAPFSDS you often need multiple direct shots)(spalling is quite heavily negated due to spall liners in russian autoloaders)
• impact/penetration angle (high(attacking) to low(target) has more of a chance to cook off whereas low to high does not as much but depends on exactly LOS)
  and many more situational factors.

my honest advice. let this rest. pick a bigger issue (lineups and russian spam)

[markimash]

@HYPNOSYS2002

my honest advice. let this rest.

Yeah, yall need realize that OP is not exactly playing with a full deck. Ecspecially when he basically argued that top tier needs to be nerfed to help those who decided to skip the whole tech tree. By that logic, any top tier match with a newbie should make all the veteran players have double the reload time to help balance it out.

[TheArcticFoxxo]

All autoloading vehicles with better loading times than T-72/T-90, T-64/T-80, and 2S25:

America
T-114
T-54E1
AGS/XM-8
CCVL
MBT-70/XM-803
Germany
DF-105
BMP-1
TURM-3
CN-105 (or SK-105)
KPz-70
Leopard 2 PT-14
VT1-2
United Kingdom
Rooikat MTTD
Is… Is that really all? Sorry Britain…
Japan
Chi-Ri II
Type-90/90B
Type-10/TK-10
China
ZBD-86
PTZ-89
Italy
VCC-80/60
France
AMX-M4
Bat-Chat 25T
AMX-13/75
AMX-13/90
AMX-13/75 HOT
AMX-13/75 SS-11
MARS-15
Lorraine 40T
Somua SM
AMX-50/100
AMX-50/90
AMX-50B/120 (Light / Heavy)
SK-105A2
Leclerc
Leclerc S.2
Leclerc S.21
Sweden
SAV 20.12.48
Bandkanon 1C
S-103-0
S-103A
S-103C
CV9030
CV9040B
CV9040C
Lvkv9040C
CV9040B BILL
CV90120

Yeah, autoloader bias my ass.

[TheArcticFoxxo]

@DocUSMC

Not true with a lot of people buying premiums and using them to skip ranks.

And either way any related vehicle of that BR range has the same autoloader.
Crew points while buying into top tier makes no difference. Sure, if you bought an M1 KVT or M1A1 AIM you’ll suck ass because you don’t have them, but there is no difference whatsoever between the T-72AV and T-72A/B. The only difference is that the T-80s have a 6.5 second reload, which itself is the correct reload time for all T-72s, T-90s, T-64s, and T-80s.

@DocUSMC

Because they aren’t russian. That is how this game works.

It’s because they don’t have a wide range of shot types. America has what… 3 APFSDS choices to choose from? They get their worst at tier 1, and their best at tier 4.

(M1A1HC)

And woah?!? What does Russia get!?!?

Oh… Right… Horrible APFSDS tier 1, their best at tier 4.
(T-80BVM)

@DocUSMC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt8ov7QgxDY

Oh look at that! You shot a T-80BVM’s propellent charge 8 times with Mk258… a 70g shot… Yeah, you know that 2 piece propellent charges have a cumulative dampener of 10% per shot, right? Stacking… So… That gives that piece a 43% change of detonation.
Hence why it exploded on the second charge…

Yeah, it’s 7.5 if you’re skipping over 5 shots to reach a 6th shot. It’s 7.1 if you’re skipping over 3 to reach #4. Last I checked both Ural and Malyshev variants are capable of firing 4 different kinds of ammunition, so the longest possible reload rate (if set sequentially) is 7.3 seconds.
What about the Ukraine war? It’s shown little to nothing of loading times, and last I checked there weren’t videos of soldiers staring at cyclograms.

Please educate yourself buddy.

@DocUSMC

Correct about reload, correct about not having to grind as hard for modules, and correct about being able to skip crew points.

Entirely wrong about reload… Like… LAUGHABLY wrong about reload.
No, nowhere close to correct. The M1A1, M1A1HC, M1A2, M1A2 SEP, and M1A1AIM all have tier 1 APFSDS.
You don’t skip crew points for anything. Either way, you have a set loading time (correct or not) that others can outdo in pretty much every situation.

@DocUSMC

Which is why its a problem. Their is no balance with a downside.

I don’t know how stupid you have to be to not understand this, but there are MAJOR downsides to autoloaders… First off, almost EVERY SINGLE TANK AT YOUR BR WILL OUTLOAD YOU. There are very few select vehicles that have fast enough reload rates to outdo any vehicle it comes across, and almost all of the time it puts it at a major disadvantage.

@DocUSMC

Again watch the entire video. NATO tank dies 12 out of 12 times, russian tank not so much.

Yes, you fired at a Challenger 2 through a full rack of 26 propellent charges. As opposed to the T-80’s 1. Can you pull out all ammo to replicate this, as well as orient the tank so you have a spall liner and 3 bulkheads to penetrate?

@DocUSMC

2.5 is the reality of the tank. We aren’t seeing russian vehicles held to the same standards of being nerfed. Hell the Mk3 and Mk5 cannot even get the right ammo. We are missing tons of anti-era rounds in NATO tanks. While russian vehicles are over loaded with choices.

And I will add, I play tanks with auto loaders and I think auto loaders should be a module. You see this is what an unbias opinion looks like. You should try it.

2.5 is as much of a reality as an Abrams loading in 4 seconds. Sure, the loader can hug his next shell until the breech is cleared, load that as quickly as possible, then have the breechblock down and ready to fire in under 4 seconds, but it isn’t sustainable. Sweden found multiple reliability issues with faster loading times, including an increase in hydraulic pressure that leads to wear.
The Chieftain Mk3 and Mk5? You mean the 8.7 Chieftains? The ones who used that same APDS ammunition extensively in Iraq/Iran? The same ammunition that was deemed “sub-par” and led to the destruction of over 700 Chieftain tanks?

Yeah, sure, sorry, we’ll get right on that. We’ll give it L23A1 right away, and it will be uptiered to 9.0. Now, it will be the exact same as the Chieftain Mk10. Except with lower amounts of armor, a less powerful engine.

@DocUSMC

You see this is what an unbias opinion looks like. You should try it.

Please… Stop it mate… I’m going to piss myself if you keep making me laugh like this.

[TheArcticFoxxo]

@HYPNOSYS2002

the issue with russian autoloader ammunition not blowing up is due to a list of factors:

With each shot to a 2 piece propellent charge the chance of explosion lowers. That, mixed with the unbelievably light APFSDS he’s firing at it… Yeah.

@HYPNOSYS2002

my honest advice. let this rest. pick a bigger issue (lineups and russian spam)

Lineups and Russian Spam… I mean, I can see lineups. Russia currently has the most extensive due to having the widest range of military vehicles on the planet.
Then again, America has 5 120mm Abrams and 3 105mm Abrams to choose from.
Russia gets… 5 Ural pattern vehicles, 2 Malyshev pattern vehicles, and 3 Omsk pattern vehicles to choose from. Oh, did I mention that this ranges from 9.3-11.7, not just 10.3-11.7?
The “spam” is no problem at all, seeing as most major nations are on par with their lineups. Even then, if it WERE a problem, it’s a doctrinal issue. Take it up with America and ask them why they don’t use standalone SPAA with long range missiles… They’ll laugh from the roof of an M6 Linebacker and tell you to fuck off.

[Malekitth]

0 knowledge lmao , which Russian tank has 4 second reload? Cope harder

[Malekitth]

Trying to find a spec of dust to brand it either as russian main or russian bias eh? Dude has USMC in his name and tries to act righteous LMAO

[TheArcticFoxxo]

A lot of BS to wade through? What do you think I’ve been doing for the past 4 days, buddy?
I did show your stat card with 0 filters. And unlike you, I know how to sort it properly.

@DocUSMC

Everyone gets a kill to death ratio, that is pretty normal. Unless you missed something in your sentence.

Are you dyslexic? Unable to read? Or do you have such a shitty sense of humor that me saying “death to kill ratio” entirely crossed your mind?
Yes, it means you’re shit. Not everybody has it, because not everybody sucks. It means for every 2 deaths you get, you take 1 kill with you.

@DocUSMC

Which is an advantage. Which should also have a disadvantage (and it doesn’t. You get the tank stock and have better reload rates than other nations which have to spend countless hours if they want the same). It needs a disadvantage to be balanced. Let me know if you can understand this point.

Yes, it’s both and advantage and a disadvantage. You now have a set reload rate no matter what the circumstances, but now you have 1 less crew member, meaning less survivability, and now you have an entirely open ammo rack to be shot.
Stock tank with better reload rates? Did you miss the part where I listed every single autoloader in the game that fires faster than Russian loaders?
Newsflash, there are 51.
That isn’t counting the fact that any 4-man MBT with a good crew can outload these autoloaders, whether or not said autoloader is set to a level 12 crew or level 150.

@DocUSMC

Many russian tanks have range finders at Mod T2, and APFSDS at Mod T3. While my poor Swedish tanks have to wait until Mod T4 for both. Such balance…

The Object 906 doesn’t get any rangefinder. Period. The AMX-10RC gets a laser rangefinder 1 BR step higher, as well as the Strv-103 getting a laser rangefinder at the same BR… Along with a faster reload that you keep crying about.
Can you name me 1 Russian tank that gets thermals at 9.3? No? How about a laser rangefinder at tier 1? Oh, right, none.
Meanwhile, Sweden gets 5 APCs with laser rangefinders and APFSDS unlocked tier 1 and stock respectively.
Did I mention they’re all Rank 5?

@DocUSMC

Or you could be playing Sweden and get stuck with shitty rounds until the end AND have to spend points to upgrade your crew for reload speed AND take a hit if that crew member dies. Instead of getting everything handed to you like the T-55AM1 does at Mod T2.

Shitty rounds until the end… Right, because I’m sure everybody else with stock APFSDS on a Leopard 2 is crying as much as you.
Oh, did I mention that 4 of your top tier MBTs also get 2 of 3 of the best top tier rounds? With a 6.3 second reload for the price of about 1M SL? How about your 5 IFVs with stock APFSDS, Tier 1 laser rangefinders, Tier 2 magnetic airburst HE?
Ah, right. The crew points shit. Did you forget that for the small cost of 3.0 levels to your Weapon Reloading skill, you can outload almost every Russian MBT in the game? They can’t do anything about it, because as you said, crew points do nothing at all.
The T-55AM-1 is a premium. You get everything handed to you for money, or 60GJN.
Do you mean the AMD-1? Where you get 3BM25 at tier 2? Or would it hurt you too much for me to mention the AMX-32/120, which gets a faster reload, better armor, a better gun, better depression, a 20mm coax, all at tier 3? Oh, right, it gets thermals, something the 55AMD-1 doesn’t have to begin with.

@DocUSMC

T-90s and T-72s IRL have about a 7.5 second reload rate. In game they get 7.1. They are not nerfed. Since you want to go with the slower of the STRV 103Cs reload rates, they should do the same with russia. Oh wait, that doesn’t happen.

Yeah, no, they don’t. They have a 6.5 second base reload, and for each passover the reload is prolonged by 0.2 seconds. 7.1 seconds is the rated sequential load time for a baseline combat load of APFSDS, HEATFS, HE-F, and an ATGM. The T-72A and T-64A both would load in 6.9 seconds with a full load of all their ammunition choices, and as said before, 6.5 seconds is the baseline 1:1 loading rate.
7.1 is the theoretical longest reload rate for an АЗ-184 and МЗ-447У.
Yes, they did. The slowest reload rate possible. It’s still 56% slower than the Strv-103.
It does happening, and is right now.

@DocUSMC

Something you are completely ignoring as well, is that the T72, T80, and T90 carousels in game are coded not to detonate. Something no one else gets.

No, not the carousels, 2-piece ammunition is. Something you would understand if you went back to primary school, learned how to read, opened up your files, and used said reading skills.

@DocUSMC

So russian tanks:

1. Faster reload rate than IRL with auto loader. (don’t have to grind for upgrades, or crew points, or ace a crew, you just get it in the stock tank).
2. No detonation on the carousel ammuntion. (vs well, this has been beaten to death but we all know the truth here).
3. No autoload module to kill (vs killing a crew member and obliterating reload time for other vehicles).

This is coming from someone who plays tanks with Autoloaders. Its stupid. It should have a module that can be damaged.

1. 7.1 seconds is the slowest possible reload rate for any Russian autoloader, unless a crew decides to take a 1:1 load pattern instead of 1:3. This is both slower to configure, slower to load separate shells, and much less reliable in battle.
2. There is detonation. On the video you posted you quite literally detonated its ammo rack. Sure, it took you over 12 shots of APFSDS to do so, and due to that the explosion multiplier was hilariously low, but it still exploded. The Challenger 2 does the same, the T-10 and IS-3 does the same, the Chieftain does the same, and so does the Conqueror.
3. There is no reason for it. A tanks loader can easily outload any Russian autoloader, and even without the loader you are able to match most autoloaders with a good crew.
The penalty for hitting an autoloader is already instant death for the entire tank… So I don’t get what your point is here.

@DocUSMC

Except that russian ammuntion doesn’t detonate, so that blows that theory out of the water. How about a video proving it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt8ov7QgxDY

Yeah I didn’t quite expect you to choose the worst possible place to fire, and the worst APFSDS for the task.

@DocUSMC

Uhm you ok there buddy. Here are my vehicles sorted by kills:

Again, I’m honestly starting to think you have some sort of major mental disability.
You’ve entirely disregarded everything said over the past half week, spouting the same argumentative points and blatantly making up lies to try and prove a “point”.
You’ve misread messages MULTIPLE times, and at this point I couldn’t care enough to count as you’ve already done it 6+ times.
And again… you’ve failed to use basic comprehension skills to read ONE FUCKING SENTENCE
I will make this VERY CLEAR for your quite dull mind.

@DocUSMC

So just the top russian vehicles people have issues with.

No, just the top Russian vehicles that just so happen to have their correct loading times.

@DocUSMC

Or the 7.5 seconds if we are going to treat tanks fairly (since they have nerfed the reload speed of some tanks, like the S tank by almost double). But lets not hold russia to the same standard.

Yeah, no. Still 7.1.

@DocUSMC

So you think its ok for manual loaders to have to grind out reload speeds, and just give auto loaders more advantages. Its silly. Their should be a disadvantage to having an auto loader and with russian ammunition not detonating their isn’t one right now.

Yes, I think it’s perfectly OK. You can have a vehicle with 300% RP max out its reload rate in 15-20 matches, and on top of that you’ll have to pay ~150k SL to expert said crew. That will get you a Nashorn that matches Russia’s slowest autoloader speed. Now you just need about 400k RP to drop that reload rate by another 0.4 seconds.
What advantages do the autoloaders get? Less crew? More exposed ammo? Slower reload rates?

@DocUSMC

If they treated everyone fairly that would put the T-80BVM at 12 seconds.

It is not physically capable of that, again, unless rotating about 580dg to collect a shell.

@DocUSMC

Oh and here is your stat card organized by Kills (a whole lot of russia at the top there buddy):

A whole lot? I see 50%… Same with air kills, I have 50%. If you want overall battles, another 50%…
Same with victories, hilariously enough.
See how much of a German main I am?

[TheArcticFoxxo]

ThE oBjEcT 906 hAs A 1.3 sEcOnD rElOaD

[TheArcticFoxxo]

@sartt

T30 t34 t29

FV4005)))

[DiamondLag]

@TheArcticFoxxo

CV9030
CV9040B
CV9040C
Lvkv9040C
CV9040B BILL

I mean if we are gonna count belt/clip fed autocannons there is a whole bunch you could include.

[DiamondLag]

Having the autoloader/feed mechanism as a seperate module isnt a bad idea, i just think it faces 2 main hurdles

1. Implementing the modules (you would need to know a more detailed look of what makes up the mechanism)

2. And related to the first point, balancing what counts as the feed/autoloader mechanism and the fact it just adds more clutter to eat shrapnel in the tank. (I dont think people will be happy if the autoloader in a T72 ate the shrapnel instead of the ammo doing so)

So while its a cool idea, i dont think for the time being its a perticularly needed feature for the game and adds more problems than it adds as a feature. I would like to see it in the more distant future should other more pressing matter be solved and the main hurdles worked out.

[Armen_Lozone]

i meant spam as in a large percentage of players choosing to play russia rather than other nations

[TheArcticFoxxo]

I included those because they have small first-stage ammo reserves and they’re one of Swedens most diverse tank lines. It’s a 40mm, it’s a small ammunition pool, and… Yeah. I’m not sure if I added the Bagel or OTO, but I intended to for the same reasons.

[TheArcticFoxxo]

Ah, I assumed you were talking lineup-wise. That’s the largest argument that is pitched.

[Armen_Lozone]

tbh i still dont know what you meant by the lineups thing but imma act like i do 😅

[TheArcticFoxxo]

I was describing the amount of similar vehicles over a specified BR range, as that’s what “spam” is most commonly referred to. Apparently you meant nation popularity and such, so just… Ignore everything in that area. I was on a COMPLETELY different wavelength.

[Armen_Lozone]

ah ok, nah imo thats a pretty weak argument about one nation having a lot of similar thing in a br range. i mean they HAD that so it being there isnt an issue. germany also had a lot of similar models and variants as did pretty much every other nation at one br or another (or time period)