Then I am not sure why you are so against it. I understand vehicles will be adjusted to appropriate BR’s. I can see the Ostwind going up to 4.7, the Ostwind 2 to 6.3 and Coelian going up to 7.3. I don’t see that as a problem and they technically don’t even need to give to all 37mm guns mostly just the Ostwind 2 and Coelian are the only vehicles that really need it in my opinion.
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Two reasons:
- Historical accuracy
- Not necessary
AA are for air targets. Depending on the guns they are also against ground vehicles or even primarely against ground vehicles.
Historical accuracy < Game balance
I think game balance should take over in this situation, it feel bad not be able to defend ur self when using an AA especially when ur spawn is pushed, or dealing with enemies from even the side of medium tanks. This is not a game breaking change just bring the vehicle to status quo.
4 Likes
Like I said. It’s not needed for balance and there is no defending.
Give them APCR and everyone will just play them like IFVs, cruising around flanks, killing light tanks and then dispatching medium and heavy tanks from the side.
Basically discount Bofors Leopards.
And again, the 37mm is the superior AA platform over other guns with higher penetration, due to the increased RoF.
This gets a +1 from me. I know people are a little hesitant to give SPAA armor-piercing rounds, and understandably so, the PzGr rounds are frankly underwhelming. If they add this in a belt that consists of two or three parts HE and one part HVAP (like in the Kugelblitz), then I can see it being fairly balanced, since the slow fire rate of the Flak guns would keep it in check. All that said, the Sd.Kfz. 6/2 and Ostwind shouldn’t get it, only the Ostwind II and Flakpanzer 341. 113mm of penetration at 3.7, let alone 1.7 is frankly too busted.
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Indeed, as well as, Ostwind will be moving down to 3.3 duo to last Br changes of April. And the Ostwind could also get the Navy Pzgr. L’Spur Apcbc round.
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I vote for limiting the amount of good AP munitions a AA gun or SPAA can bring,
the apcr got removed by gaijin, but aas originally had them (and they were incredibely overpowered, since it’s the same ammo as what the ju87g has). Just like how the yak-9k have only he for its 45mm despite being able to use aphe. Same goes for the ariete/sagitario. If you want to balance the game, then you should want to remove all ap rounds from aas, and only leaving very few for self defense.
i think it’s currently 108mm since i believe it’s the hvap round fired by the ju87g.
1 Like
Thats both wrong, the 37mm Flaks never had them in game and the 45mm gun uses a different lighter rounds, its doubfull if it even got ANY Ap rounds and they just copied the Apbc shot in game. And for your 2nd Post, there existed 2 versions and Charges, with weights of 405-410g and 1150-1070m/s which is the difference of 108/110-113mm/10m
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Bro u make sounds as if they will break the game while this type of gameplay is already part of it??? I just want the ostwind 2 and Coelian to get the HVAP. It’s straight forward a good spaa should be able to deal with air threats and defend it self but for some reason u discount any ground capabilities, look at AMX-13 DCA 40 it can do both superb it can defend it self from light and medium tanks while also be able to deal with air targets does it break the game no because it got no armor and u have to aim with ur gun to get weak points. It just feels like you have had a lot bad experience with spaa flanking and killing you and that’s why you are so against it and blaming it on the vehicles rather than the player.
3 Likes
Don’t try to make this personal.
It’s already the case that Germany gets supremely effective 20mm SPAA at 1.3/1.7 that can have better RoF than other while still having good AP performance firing both AP and APCR.
The Ta-Se at 1.7 has around the same armor penetration but only 2/3 the RoF, meaning it will naturally be better in destroying vehicles instead of planes compared to the German 20mm SPAA.
Same with the Italian car that only has half the RoF compared to a German 20mm FlaK 38.
So even at 1.3 it’s more of a light tank than a real SPAA.
A 40mm Bofors on a truck at 2.0 or on a light tank chassis at 5.0 is just naturally having better anti vehicle capabilities when German 37mm in comparison lacks penetration but have a higher RoF.
Some SPAA are going to play more like light tanks with increased AA ability then actual SPAA.
The BTR-ZD has dual 23mm with high RoF and velocity. Very good AA ability, penetration is practically the same as the German 37mm BUT it needs to reload after 50rds (per gun) and doesn’t fire APHE.
Is there any problem with the vehicle? Anyone feel like they should have the ability to “defend” themself from tanks?
No, because it’s a good AA vehicle and that’s why people play it.
There is simply no need to give German 37mm SPAA an ahistorical APCR round.
This would be a very well deserved upgrade for the Ostwind 2 and the Koelian since their current AP round is rather lacking in the penetration aspect
2 Likes
You make it sound like war thunder is 100% historical accurate and we all know that’s false.
But you are okay with certain AA playing like light tanks but not other.
Like you point out that already exist in game where some spaa play like light tanks/ have multiple roles.
Also that slight pen increase on the BTR-ZD is the difference between it being able to defend it self against vehicle that’s why it moved up from 4.3 when it was first added all the way up to 5.7.
And yes it feels like shit when you can’t defend yourself an any way.
Also it allows the vehicle to be played in a different role which makes it more usable.
By your logic the should remove all ap rounds from spaa so that they can’t defend them selves. Air only gameplay.
It just feels like you are trying to gate keep German 37mm spaa Ostwind 2 and Coelian. I just want the German spaa to get the balance it needs, to bring it up to par with the rest of the nations
2 Likes
I’m ok with vehicles being good.
You’re silly. It was moved up because it has two freaking 23mm firing at 800 RPM.
Of course a vehicle with twice the firepower as a Wirbelwind is going to rise in BR.
If that wouldn’t severly limit their ability to do anything in the game, I would agree.
Vehicles like the Falcon lose their entire point of being an SPAA due to having APDS that isn’t necessary.
It went up in BR because it’s so effective in killing vehicles, not because it’s a great AA.
So SPAA certainly don’t need to have some AP round that increases their effectiveness against ground vehicles, beyond the ability to destroy light vehicles.
It’s weird how your definition of balanced requires SPAA to have increased performance against vehicles.
The more effective a vehicle becomes in either AA or ground role, its BR increases, meaning faster planes and more armored vehicled.
So no SPAA is inherenly unbalanced. Simply because they are going to be effective against ground, air or both.
I think you are being a bit silly, vehicles are balanced on three things fire power, mobility and armor. Those effect where a vehicle is placed BR wise. Clearly it’s fire power was overpowered for that BR cause it could deal with light tanks and medium effectively also u can watch all the YouTube video when it was first dropped it was a light tank on steroids
The point of the game is to capture points / defeat the enemy if there are no air targets then ur subjecting a vehicle to be useless with your logic, the most powerful vehicle usually have multiple uses/ roles they can fill especially AA
I just want equality across the board when it comes vehicles either bring certain vehicles up to spec. In the case of APCR for the 37mm they would only have around 13 more mm of pen compared to 40mm/L70 Bofors 96mm pen of the AP which is already in game. Else bring everything down but I would rather option 1 for balance reason. I would not want to negatively impact the performance of other vehicles. I would fine with the adjusted BR after that is done!
Especially for the Flakpanzer 341 this (and the Pzgr. L’Spur) would be really needed, just now again, i couldnt even damage the enemys tank barrle, because it was too thick.
Example the Object 268 has 40mm barrle, and it was a bit further away so i couldnt damage it at all.
But you can shoot down aircraft much better then the Object 268 😋
It has a 14,5mm Mg on the roof, i wouldnt be so shure about that.
Pretty sure that 2x3,7cm beats 14.5mm ;)