Germany has no 10.4-11.3 tanks. Leo2A4 army of 10.3 is totally unbalanced when -1.0br

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
41

People still missing the point.

The point is not if today’s Leo2A4 at 10.3 is correct BR or not.

The point is that this tank is facing russian 11.3 & 10.7 almost 5/6 battles. Not having own tanks of 10.7 or 11.3 (apart from dollar-leopard pl, which is pretty rare) means the reality is Leo2A4 vs. T-72B3. That is the problem. And due to germany being rather popular among players it ends up in having an entire team 16 players of Leo2A4’s in a 11.3 battle, which always ends up in total butchering since on average Leo2A4 can’t compete against T-72B3.

Germany needs non-golden tanks between 10.7 and 11.3. Don’t care how it’s done, but one way could be to add something like Leo2A4 R, which would have the real life specs including better ammo and that titanium armor plating (or whatever it is called). Add that tank and put it 11.0 or something. If that was done, then every time I spawn my current 10.3 Leo to a 11.3 I can at least try play, as I would hope we would have some of those Leo2A4R tanks on our side and they would stand a chance against the russian 11.3 tanks. Today the entire german team is just Leo2A4 and such 11.3 battle is not worth playing.

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42

False.
Im playing 10.0-10.7 a lot and its often either 10.3-10.7 BR, rarely 11.0 and even rarer a 11.3

So you shot basically the same weakspots like 10.0 T72B lol?
Not having options isnt bias or anything, if your country didnt see much things as stop gap fillers than is it really the fault of the game?

43

Dude, I’m playing this Leo2A4 now with my german crew and it is 5/6 of the battles that the Leo is not 150SP at start, meaning the battle would be 10.3. Usually it’s either 100SP or 110SP, meaning 11.3 or 11.0.

This uptier & downtier is surely the case as usual in War Thunder, but only in german 10.3 none of our fellow german team members are +10.3 either. We are all 10.3, since there are no german tanks above 10.3 until then 11.7. This is the problem. The whole team is facing another whole team of far superior tanks. Better just disconnect immediately, as it is very clear from start what is going to happen.

What?

When you have some sinai desert etc. map where tanks shoot each other from 1600 meters away (etc) it really makes a difference when T-72B3 only needs to hit Leo2A4 to either kill it or destroy everything inside. Meanwhile Leo2A4 needs to hit some small match-box size vier port in the frontal hull, assuming it is even visible. That’s just bullshit. Give Leo2 similar ammo as T-72B3 so that both tanks can one-shot each others not just the other one.

Luckily this disconnecting at start-up is a rather effective way to counter the unfair match making. I go fly my 1945 Me-163B-0 8.7 against some MiG-21’s from 1980s while waiting for 8min crew lock to my land germans. And yeah, if Me-163B-0 is also -1.0br then it’s alt-tab and browse the internet for a few minutes. That is also much more interesting than being target practice for far superior aircraft.

“You got to pick your battles”

44

Probably a server thing. I usually play SA and its constantly never above 10.7

Already has it. 11.3-11.7
Give T-72B3 same mobility and gun handling like Leo2 then, cant happen? Well have what you have then.
Plus you can literally easy kill T series due to constantly blowing up fuel tanks and very small amount of crew as well as its closd compartment, a shot below the gun breach can kill entire crew or make sure the tank cant move or shoot back at minimum.
A shot lower to LFP can ammo rack, leave tank moveless, or oneshot it due to fuel tanks.
A shot to turret ring or turret top can easily breack breaches or pick out crew members.
Shot to gun breach also can oneshot or pick out the gun.

Dude we have 50s vehicles fight 2016 vehicles, 30s tanks fight cold war IFVs, its no special for your case.
Or for example 1985 Leopard 1 fight T-64A from 1971 that in game is barely different from first T-64A sereis earlier.
We also have to aim since low tiers, its no special case here either.
If it isnt fair and imbalanced then why my 6.7 T-44 still cant do anything frontally to Tiger 2 H all while it can pen my turret and lower plate with ease?
All tanks suffer fighting vehicles BR higher and full BR vehicles usually stomp lower BR vehicles, what a suprise.
In uptiers its rare that +1.0 BR vehicles is what you’re gonna fight the most, the majority will be 0.3-0.7 tanks which Leo 2A4 can fight, just as 11.3.
Hell people managed to do nukes using only T-80Bs or Leopard 2A4 at 11.7

A vehicle suggestions to fill the existing gap would be fine, not buffing current tanks without changes in BR, or even with them as you will only kill line ups.
Unfortunately I see nothing being suggested from you.

45

Yeah played 10.3 sweden for the most part a few days ago many down tiers and most game were down tiers and if it was an uptier i did better than a downtier as it forces me to actually use my brain.

well german players could learn to aim at weakspots then they might be able to play better

1 Like
46

Classic.

Yeah I would also like the idea to introduce some 12.7 Super Leopard with 1500mm armor all over, 2000mm ap gun and good mobility. Then put it against 11.7 russian top tier tanks. Russian tanks would get their asses handed over for them. When the complaints start, use the “well russian players could learn to aim at weakspots then they might be able to play better”. Bueno!

47

1500mm armour all around would make it unkillable unlike the T72B3

Also there is a reason its a whole BR above the leopard 2A4 as its a bit better.
Its not unkillable and i have also had the fun of fighting them in even worse vehicles.
Also back in the day pretty sure the leopard 2A4 could fight the T80BVM
so the current situation is fine for now

Also look at the things at 9.3 there is things that struggle to pen the 2A4

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48

No, but make a small match-box size weak spot to the Super Leopard so that after that it’s “russian players just need to learn to play better”.

Yeah? How about having one or two german tanks there as well? So that the fights are not between Leo2A4 and T-72 "It’s a bit better than Leo2A4"B3? That is my point. More german tanks to fill the gap of 10.7-11.3. Then we can have whatever german 11.3 tank vs. T-72B3 and that would be a fair battle. The golden 11.3 leo2 pl is very rare, doesn’t arrive to rescue german teams 10.3 more than once or twice a day.

You are missing the point, again. If you spawn 9.3 tank to a 10.3 battle you are -1.0br and struggling. Yes. BUT! The tank spawning next to you is 10.3 so your team is still good to go. Enemy team has also some 9.3 tank and maybe you can shoot him. The 10.3 guy can take out enemy 10.3.

For 11.3 germans there are no friendly 11.3 spawning as they don’t exist. You are all 10.3 and nobody can really take out the 11.3 tanks unless a) really good player or b) really lucky. Giving the fact that there are 16 players in a team (maybe all Leo2A4) the chances for winning get pretty low. I have witnessed this myself many times. See my screenshot above for an example. It was yet another 11.3 battle where our team was a) pretty much entirely german and b) all players having 10.3 Leo2A4. We lost completely, as usual.

49

And instead of getting suggestions or making them you decide to only complain? Quite a smart move.

Especially with some nations straight up jumping from 9.7-11.7

50

What? I have now like 5 times suggested adding german tanks to fill the 10.7-11.3 gap. You not spotting any of them is beyond my help.

51

I have seen practically almost everyone but you suggest them.
It would be especially much better if you would use what you say is unbalanced as a reason to add these as well, instead of making that “unbalancement” the main point.

52

I stongly recommend you read also the posts above your own comment before commenting.

1 Like
53

So you saying “oh we need some tanks” and practically saying something that has been said is a brand new suggestion?

Really nice joke.

54

Oh now the problem changed to someone else having already suggested the same?

So you mean you were incorrect before saying I only complain and not suggest any improvements? No problem, just read the texts next time before posting someting ok?

55

but the spalling is crazy. But i get your point. im ok with leo 2a4 with dm 23 although the russian and russian and chinese vehcicles make up for their deficit by having smaller weakpoints. i think its ok if 2a4 stays with dm 23 although dm 33 would be preferred would be nice to see. but the real focus should be the addition of 10.7 and 11.0 vehicles. i would really want to see something like the 10.7 of china.

56

It’s 11.3 though

57

I support PL to 11.0 directly, we do have M1A1 and TKX(P) at 11.0, PL at this BR is ok

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58

So you’ll be fine with it being 11.0 right and seeing 11.7?

59

im stupid i wanted to say that it should be placed there, sorry.

60

Yes.

I think I’ll have to re-write this same stuff here like 14 times but so be it.

The Leo2A4 of today, at 10.3, is not necessarily at wrong BR. Yes, sometimes it is top tier sometimes down tier. That happens in WT all the time.

The problem is that there are no german tanks between 10.4-11.3, apart from that gold leo2 pl, which is rarely seen.

So here comes the problem: Germany playing 11.3 means the entire team is playing Leo2A4s and we are all -1.0br.

So if you give Leo2A4 DM33 or DM43 ammo, and make it 11.0 or whatever, NO, it does not make a problem if it then is sucked up into 11.7 battles because 11.7 battles also contain then friendly Leo2A5 & Leo2A6. Those 11.7 guys can take out enemy 11.7 and hence the battle is balanced.

With 11.3 battle Germans, everyone being 10.3 Leo2A4 or Leo2A4 Pzbtl123, there is no balance as the team completely lacks 10.7, 11.0 and usually also 11.3 players. If someone happens to have Leo 2 PL, the gold tank, he surely has only one of those and then after that all his remaining tanks are max 10.3. This is an unbalanced starting point to a battle. German team having only 10.3 tanks and enemy team all sorts of tanks 11.3, 11.0 & 10.7. Not just one tank per player, but enemy has several. If you destroy one 11.3, next spawn is also 11.3 most likely. This is not the case with germans, where if some gold player has the Leo2PL and it get’s destroyed, he for sure is not going to spawn more 11.3 tanks into that battle as then there literally are no more tanks left.

This is the problem. The entire battle becomes worthless to play as it is 100% sure germans will lose.

If you readers still don’t understand the problem then imagine having a battle between 15x BT-5 vs. 15x Tiger1. It might be that one day in some year the BT-5s make a miracle and win, but let’s face it on average they are going to lose every single battle. Would it be interesting to play “BT-5 vs. Tiger1” battles? I would not be interested. German 11.3 is not as extreme as BT-5 army vs. Tiger1 army, but the basic problem is pretty much the same. On average, germans lose every 11.3 battle due to lack of any other than 10.3 tanks.

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