This screenshot is highly explanatory that you, the premium leopards, and the event vehicle users, are all part of the problem, but dunning kruger syndrome prevents you from realising that.
Leopard 2A4 is a great tank for its br, moving it up without moving also the other tanks up in parallel, after it got its armour nerfed previously, is not a good move, even if it got better apfsds as a compensation.
I would even say that this is a really forgiving tank to learn top tier gameplay, why is there a need for more vehicles for a nation that is already good at 10.3, if you lack some of them, the answer is purchasing them (premium 2a4), or researching them (most players I know ignores spaa line, even light tank one), or planes.
You quitting is just contributing to the problem that is a one death leaving team.
No, you are missing the point.
Leo2A4 is what it is, but the problem is the match making system putting it against 11.3 russian tanks. This happens, because Germany has no tanks between 10.4-11.3, apart from that one gold tank at 11.3 which is very rarely seen anywhere.
Why is it always with Germany that “the tanks are still great you just have to learn how to play them better”. No wonder Adolf lost WW2 as currently I’m flying Me-163 B-0 from 1945 and at 8.7 facing soviet MiG-21’s from 1980s and what not. Yeah, let me guess it’s again "Me-163 B-0 is a great plane despite it has been placed among afterburning air-to-air missile jets that are 2x faster, have more than 6min of fuel and more than 240x 20mm ammo.
Germany should keep the Leo2A4 as of today, but then for example have the real life Leo2A4 with real ammo DM33 and real armor and place it in 11.0 or somewhere. So then germany can use those against russian 11.3 tanks. Why put Germany in such a position that we have to fight 580mm pen 11.3 T-73B3 ~with 1000mm frontal armor with our own 10.3 Leo2A4 with 403mm AP and 400mm frontal armor?
That’s just not a fair battle. The problem is not us researching the german tree and at one point, now, finding the Leo2A4 as our next tank to play. What did we do wrong?
An idea: Why don’t we add some 12.7 Super Leopard to the game. Make it have 2000mm armor all around and 1500mm AP in the main gun. Then Russian top tier 11.7 is always fighting it and losing 6/7 times for obvious reasons. Then, once and when there will be similar complaining let’s just say “T-90M is a great tank it just needs to be driven properly”. That should do it! Enjoy the game!
well the game has never been fair, many nations doesnt have any vehicle in between 10.3 and 11.3, this is not a german only problem, there are even worse cases like france.
Well, not true.
USA has 3x 11.3 tanks
Russia 6 tanks 10.6-11.3
France 3 tanks 11.3
Sweden 3 tanks 10-4-11.3
Germany 0 tanks 10.4-11.3
See the problem? Where are german 10.4-11.3 tanks???
The problem with germany is much worse than for other nations also due to germany being one of the two most popular nations to play (together with russia). As shown in my screenshot below it is not uncommon for 90% of the team to be germany in many battles. This multiplies the problem as the entire team is so far behind in specs. Sometimes, should a very rare event take place that germany and russia are on same side in a 11.3 battle it’s not so bad for germany, as russian friends have top tier tanks and our team has a chance of winning the game. But I’d say 9/10 times germany and russia are on different sides, and if we are 90% germany on a 11.3 battle it means we are all Leo2A4’s and have no hope.
france has 0 in between 10.0 up to 11.7…
has 2 and the rare merkava 3d.
russia has 2 10.7 and the t80 um2 which is 11.0
italy has 1 the kf41 which is arguably worse than the puma
it has 1
most nations doesnt have many tanks in between those tiers to begin with.
well your screenshot is meaningless. you can easily get those kind of battles with nations that have better tanks in that bracket, this is quite common in br were you have very famous premiums, specially after the ralease or when they are at discount, this is nothing exclusive to germany, this also happens the other way around, playing 9.3 you can also find matches full of 10.3 prem while you dont have any or maybe 1 or 2. This is a matchmaking issue not a germany suffer bs
Not to mention that the enemy team had a just 1 more 11.3, most of the team were 10.3s
My bad, it was Italy. Italy has 3 tanks 11.3.
USA has 1x 11.0 and 2x 11.3.
Russia has 4x 10.7-11.3 + 2 premiums = 6
Sweden 1x 10.7, 1x 11.3 and 1x prem 11.0
Nope, you show me a battle where 90% of team is Sweden for example. Or France. Does not exist other than maybe once every 1000 battles. Germany and Russia are so much more popular that they obviously form majorities of teams.
Russia and USA don’t have these kinds of 1.0BR gaps in their tech trees. Hence this same issue does not occur. They got 11.3, 11.0, russia got 10.7 and then 10.3. For germany it’s just 10.3 → 11.7 and nothing in between.
This is basically one and same thing. Germany suffers not because Leo2A4 is bad, but because majority of battles with a team full of Leo2A4 is against tanks much higher in BR = germany suffer. Having the same problem stretch to the whole german team means such battles are almost always lost. Every german player is -1.0br and therefore has disadvantage. You can say it’s not “germany suffer bs”, but do note no other “main” nation has this same situation. Funny coincidence germany has.
the leo 2pl should still retain dm 43 as mbt 2000 in 10.7 has similar penetration values with its top apfdsds
Leo2PL’s protection capability, thermal imager, reloading time, artillery pitch angle, gun rotation device speed, viability(number of crew members) are all better than MBT2000, are you really sure?
i think with your argument its better to have a leo 2a4 (which the 2pl is but a normal 2a4 i mean) which should just get the dm 43. and if the 2pl should be 10.7 it should rather have dm 33. therefore you are right but the 2pl should retain the dm 43 imo and should stay at 11.0, where gaijin should concentrate and add further 11.0 and 10.7 stuff. leo 2a4 evolution, later 2a4 variants and further prototypes such as the leo 2a6ex etc should be put after the leopard 2k
You do realise you essentially would have to shoot the exact same places with Dm33 as Dm23 on the T72B3
a funny fact😆
germany just needs the expansion of a 10.7 to 11.0 lineup. having a normal 2a4 with dm 33 would do nothing. imo dm 33 should be the standard shell for germany at 10.3 for leo 2a4. Reffering to my argument before and with @MoZi3 reminding me a modified 2a4 with dm 43 should be implemented. And the 11.0 to 11.3 should be expanded after the leopard 2k line with leo 2a4 evo, and other variants wich could sit there 2a4m etc.
Dm 33 and the leo goes to 10.7
i dont think so. i mean just look at the mbt 2000. it has top tier penetration values and the dm 33 on the leo 2a4 wouldnt have that. the leo 2a4 with dm 43 at 10.7 would be equal. But i think there should be later versions of the 2a4 with dm 43 at 10.7 but not the one which sits at 10.3 right now.
the Mbt 2000s gun handling is tragic the 2A4 for comparison is great
If you are struggling to fight a T-90A in a 2A4 I don’t know what to tell you.
i mean it recieves better armor. Imo this trade off is sufficient but having 100mm less pen is too much. If germany recieves a slightly uparmored 2a4 with dm 33 i could confindently say that it should at least sit at 10.7. I really want to see that happen. but 2a4 evo and 2a4m feel like 11.0 stuff at least .
Heh, one of these guys again.
Yeah, I bet you destroy T-90A’s with Pz.IVs, but the problem is most WT players are not War Thunder Heroes, only average players at best. We would like to have some sense of balance in the battles.
The problem is at its worst in the large-distance maps such as maginot line or the few desert maps. When you have 1500 meters of shooting distance, 11.3 can still destroy 10.3 leo’s just by hitting it anywhere due to the +500mm AP that is still left. However, Leo2A4 with 380mm AP remaining with the DM23 can only hope on hitting the small view port in the middle of the T-90 hull. Again, no problem for a Hero like yourself but for the rest of us that’s becoming quite an inconvenience.
Why not instead just have a fair battle.
Man the Leo 2A4 is already arguibly best MBT at 10.3 and now you’re buffing a tank which doesnt even suffer, how the hell its not a BR raise?
Last I checked Leopard 2A4 is quite good at optics, gun handling, speed.
Opposed so soviet and chinese tanks they have great mobility and gun handling, as well as reload.
If you both could lol pen eachother what balance would it be if armour is basically extinct and the ones advancing in mobility is the opposite tanks.
Its a trade of better gun handling, mobility for armour.
Plus you cant even call soviet shells or chinese shells of that tier “top tier”, as they have among worst penetration values for top tier