German Helicopter Tech Tree - Current and Future Discussion Thread

the green you are describing isn’t green, it’s mostly due to the image quality, there is logos that are not on the final production version, like TIGER or Eurocopter, and F-ZWWW are the numbers used for prototypes, there is 3 F-ZWWW / U / Y


XD I’m not salty I’m just giving facts to get historicaly accurate stuff, I already said French Tigre should not get the stingers as those were only used by German ones


Screenshot 2023-06-24 202910

If you really want historical, then the Tiger HAD and HAP shouldn’t get HOT missiles. They literally could not use them, the optics lacking the guidance equipment to do so. Only the UHT could use them, as they were a stop gap until PARS 3 arrived.


HAHAHAHA no HOT for HAP X’D mate that’s the best joke I ever read here. I won’t go off topic and go too far in details documents about french version since that’s not the subject here, but HOT 3 were also a stop gap solution since HAC was cancelled until HAD were produced and existing HAP start to be retrofitted with HAD lazer designator for Hellfire, and better engine and electronic.

HAD never used HOT in practice but since they are basically HAP with better engine, better electronics and lazer designator for Hellfire, it shouldn’t prevent it from using HOT.


HAP with stingers, mistrales and HOT missiles

As for the page you shared, that’s from 1995/97 PAH2 prototype (5) flight manual, so not UHT per say even though it was used as a base for it, there is some changes made along the way.


here is the full page of your pic (so you can see top right corner it says PT5)


I’m not against Germany getting mistral, just give it to the right model, so on PAH-2 prototype, not the production UHT one.

The one you shared pictures of is clearly either PAH-2 proto or HAC proto, as they are quite similar, iirc only some small details like radio were different, it could work for both.

  1. HAP never used any air-to-ground missiles, it’s not a joke. It’s role was to escort other helicopter and provide support for infantry with rockets and cannon. HAP and HAD were used simultaneously in service. Neither were able to guide HOT missile because the optical system lacked the IR tracker needed to do so.

  2. PAH2 is what the German Tigers were known as before being called UHT.

  3. PT5 was the final UHT prototype before serial production.

  4. The report has already been forwarded to the developers.


Listen I don’t want to flood your topic about German helicopter tree with more French helicopter data as it’s irrelevant to your topic, your confusion come to the service life as they never needed to use HOT 3 against target in Afghanistan or Mali since they didn’t have any tanks to destroy with, but there is enough proof laying around that shows HAP and by extension HAD could use HOT. You are just changing the subject of the discussion here.

as for the denomination, it’s still only present on prototype, so give prototype Mistral, but UHT never used it, and Germany never had this in their inventory for any type of vehicle or infantry units…

your prototype might even have different gun pods :


because having the almost exact same load out for 2 different vehicle who are almost the same, that doesn’t make sense, at least from a game perspective, give it a bit of uniqueness like Mistral and those gun pods who are on Mirage F1 iirc, so players have interest into grinding for it.


Hope we can get an actual way to grind helicopters before they added another million RP to grind whilst you get basically no RP per game.

The only evidence that HAP could use HOT are some images of prototypes (PT2 & PT4), which was done for display purposes. If you check the HAP flight manual, you can see that HOT is not among the authorised armaments. Neither is Stinger. I have other sources that back this up too, including a report done by some of the designers of the Tiger and reports by OCCAR.

Screenshot 2023-06-26 172348

So here’s how it is: either strict historical accuracy is adhered to in which case HOT and Stinger are removed from the Tiger HAP and HAD and the Mistral doesn’t get added to the UHT, OR; Some liberty is taken by the fact that they were armed on prototypes so the production version should also get them, which is what is done currently and only to the benefit of the French Tigers.


I’ll start with apologies for my bold talking about the HOT and Tigre program understanding. After verification with a friend who was super sure of himself about HOT in some documents, I thought he had additional documents talking about it, but unfortunatly we realised his memory just played himself a trick as we had the same HAP manual and there were no mention of HOT indeed. As for a potential bugreport for historical accuracy, even though we would make it I don’t think Gaijin would accept it as it would probably sink the sales of HAP as it would be the only premium helicopter to not have access to ATGM.

Also don’t put too much trust into those manuals as they are pretty old, I mean 1995 / 1997 for PAH-2 and 1996 for HAP, for an helicopter that entered service in the early 2000s, those manuals were edited when the program was still in the testing and prototypes phases. It doesn’t mean they are useless or bad, it’s just to stay cautious about those.
However you talked about other documents and interview about the progam, I’m interested, and I’m pretty sure other people in my community would be too.


I’ll probably at some point create a Google drive with all the documents I’ve collected relating to Tiger program (there is a lot)

1 Like

So apparently Bell Flights is in the talks now with germany to move the production of the AH-1Z to germany. If i did read it right in the talks are up to 60 machines. Goal of it is that germany will continue to get production knowledge in the helicopter fields, additionaly international ordered vipers will be produced and shipped from germany as well.

What would your prefered alternatives to the Tiger be? The Apache, the Viper or maybe that coming italien helicopter?

LFK NG, was tested @WTD61. Was tested, so it could be in WT.

H145M with Eurospike ER2 … dunno I guess it could work @WT. Especially if this would have a lower BR than Attack Helis. There are also H145M with more launch tubes. Would be similar to Bo-105, just probably +0.7 higher Br’ed.

Spike ER 2 got a 16km range, that alone propably will increase the br quite a bit, so that there are spaas that can even reach it

1 Like

It has no AA capability, so even a biplane could go for it. It would be counterbalanced.

Also it would be probably similar to the Bo-105 helis. They somhow work exceptionally well in Ground Forces up to 10.0 BR. Small, nimble, small heat sig, powerful HOT ATGMs. I’ve got a better ground vehicle K/D than in Mi-24P and Tiger UHT.

1 Like

I’m pretty sure the image of the Tiger with LFK-NG is photoshopped, this is the actual image:

And while the LFK-NG was tested, the only thing tested about it was its engines. The guidance and warhead were not complete before the project was canned, so I doubt it’s enough for Gaijin to add it.

1 Like

Eh depends the H145M does get door mounted miniguns, it is not much but sth, but dont know if they csn be used together with spikes

Well if you say it like this, It somehow looks like it…or not? Im not sure. Forget about this project.

But this H145M looks really interesting. Nice skin, Gajin should be introducing this to WT. What ATMG is it using here?

1 Like

Also spike

My guess is that the Bundeswehr is waiting to see if the Invictus wins the heli competition, and if the US is open for exports on it

I have no doubt the army probably wanted the AH-64, considering it’s good track record and the fact it’s operated by the Netherlands would present an opportunity for further cooperation. Though I have to imagine that a new anti-tank helicopter is fairly low on the priority list hence the decision to go for the budget option of the H145M. Add to this the uncertain future of the attack helicopter in general, this decision did not surprise me.