German Helicopter Tech Tree - Current and Future Discussion Thread

The purpose of this thread is to provide a centralised location for discussion and research on the future of the German helicopter tech tree. Despite the German tech tree itself being relatively large, the helicopter tree is relatively small, at least when compared to the US and Russia, making the German helicopter tree ripe for expansion. Based on existing suggestions for the German helicopter tree, I have created a mock-up of what a future expansion of the tree might look like:

The main features of this expanded tree include a naval line as an offshoot of the UH-1D, a utility line as an offshoot of the PAH-1A1, and an expansion of the existing East German line. The premium section also includes the final prototype of the UHT as a squadron vehicle, the Tiger PT5R; and a new premium helicopter, the Australian Tiger ARH, to replace the fairly lacklustre Mi-24P.

Suggested Aircraft

Mi-2URN

Mi-8TB

Mi-24D

Sea King Mk.41

Sea Lynx Mk.88A

BK 117A-3M

H145M

Bell Model 249 (Cobra PAH-2)

Tiger PT5R

Tiger ARH

More Information Needed

Bo 105 PAH-1A2

A night attack variant of the Bo-105. Very little is known about this version, but it seems like it was developed in case the Tiger program didn’t work out


[1.0] MBB Bo 105 & Airbus H135

Bo 105 LSA-3 Demonstrator N204NH

A Bo 105 with thermal optics and hellfire/TOW ATGMs
Bo 105LS A-3 N204NH 1
bo105-pv2617
"MBB BO 105 LS from 2001 to 2029"
Can Hellfire missiles be mounted above the skids? | Secret Projects Forum

Additions & Fixes to Existing Aircraft

Tiger UHT:

Incorrect rockets for the FZ225 rocket launchers

EC-665 Tiger UHT Incorrectly has FFAR Mighty Mouse rockets when it should have Hydra 70 rockets - Documented Helicopter Reports - War Thunder - Official Forum

FZ225 rocket launchers for the outer pylons

EC-665 Tiger UHT missing FZ225 rocket launchers on outer pylons - Documented Helicopter Suggestions - War Thunder - Official Forum

PARS 3 LR twin launcher for the outer pylons

EC-665 Tiger UHT missing twin-tube PARS 3 LR launcher for outer pylons - Already Reported & Resolved - War Thunder - Official Forum
Gaijin.net // Issues - Отсутствие определённого вооружения у вертолёта EC-665 Tiger UHT
Twin-tube PARS 3 4

NC621 20mm cannon pods

EC-665 Tiger UHT missing NC621 20mm Cannon Pod - Already Reported & Resolved - War Thunder - Official Forum
Gaijin.net // Issues - Отсутствие определённого вооружения у вертолёта EC-665 Tiger UHT
Tiger UHT 20mm 3

TDA 68mm rocket launchers

EC-665 Tiger UHT missing TDA 68mm Rocket Launcher - Documented Helicopter Suggestions - War Thunder - Official Forum
UHT TDA 1

Mistral ATAM for the outer pylons

EC-665 Tiger UHT missing MBDA Mistral ATAM - Already Reported & Resolved - War Thunder - Official Forum
Gaijin.net // Issues - Отсутствие определённого вооружения у вертолёта EC-665 Tiger UHT

PARS 3 LR incorrect missile behaviour

Gaijin.net // Issues - EC-665 Tiger UHT PARS 3 LR incorrect missile behaviour

Option to take 144 countermeasures

Gaijin.net // Issues - Tiger helicopters should get an option of 144 countermeasures.

Incorrect sight position

Gaijin.net // Issues - Tiger UHT TV sight and SACLOS guidance position

Name should be KHT instead of UHT

Gaijin.net // Issues - German Tiger UHT incorrect name

FN M3P machine gun incorrect ammunition amount

Gaijin.net // Issues - German Tiger UHT FN M3P machine gun incorrect ammunition amount

More Information Needed

Tiger UHT:

PARS 3 LR - 9 kg explosive mass

Some sources suggest (notably Wikipedia) that the explosive mass of the PARS 3 LR warhead is 9 kg, but more information is needed to make a report.

PARS 3 LR - 8 km range

Some sources suggest that the maximum range of the PARS 3 LR is 8 km as opposed to 7 km.

Resolved Issues

Tiger UHT:

Incorrect laser warning receiver

Gaijin.net // Issues - EC-665 Tiger (UHT, HAP, HAD) incorrect laser warning receiver

Incorrect radar warning receiver

Gaijin.net // Issues - EC-665 Tiger (UHT, HAP, HAD) incorrect radar warning receiver

9 Likes

What about the Fa 223?:

It’s certainly a possibility, I’ll probably end up writing up a suggestion once the new forum settles down a bit.

German Media talking about how the H145M is a joke and not a solution + problems to even get ammunition etc

1 Like

get that mistral out of the list plz, German Tigre never used them, french Tigre shouldn’t have access to Stinger either.

Also why getting Australian Tigre when they could be part of an australian tree/subtree? especialy when Germany could claim the PAH2 prototype if it was ever made (basically a HAP for germany)

1 Like

We have prove of the UHT using them, as such it is mentioned and can be added in the future

3 Likes

Firstly, there is never going to be a an Australian or Commonwealth tech- or sub-tree as evidenced by the C2A1 and M1A1 AIM; secondly there is no such thing as a German prototype HAP, they were all UHT prototypes; thirdly, there are many images of the UHT using the Mistral, and it is listed as possible in the manual.

5 Likes

you seems to ignore anything of the project don’t you?

France was searching for 2 tigre variants, and Germany one, funny enough Germany rejected the PAH2 that end up being adopted by France as HAP and France rejected the HAC that end up being reused as a basis for UHT.

As for any Australian or Commonwealth tree we never know, look at Italy or Israel, before being added they had vehicles in other trees

1 Like

If your proof is the Tigre HAC from DGA testing TRIGGAT (french name for PARS) and using Mistral, that’s a French prototype. So nothing to do with german army.

1 Like

Is there any German (or possible in german tree) heli that has an 20 or 30mm gun in a little turret under the nose? I love those.

1 Like

The acknowledged bug report EC-665 Tiger UHT missing MBDA Mistral ATAM - Already Reported & Resolved - War Thunder - Official Forum
The Forum conversion killed the picture but doesnt change the fact it did use them. Dont know why u are so salty about that

2 Likes

Theoretically the UHT had the option to mount the RMK-30 under the nose
Given the situation with the F-16AJ and the Yak-141, I think it should be added
(also because its a recoilless 30mm chaingun lmao)

5 Likes

Yes please, is it allready suggested? If not please go ahead!

1 Like

It was discussed heavily in the old forums, but I can suggest it again here

3 Likes

France initially planned to adopt two variants of the Tiger, the HAP (Infantry support and escort) and HAC (Anti-tank). These has distinct roles and one couldn’t really fill the role of the other. In about 2002 the HAC was officially cancelled due to budget cuts (though I suspect the decision was made long before then) which left the French with only the HAP. It was later decided to adopt a version of the HAP which could fulfil the anti-tank role which became the HAD. France currently operates both HAP and HAD variants, thought the HAPs are in the process of being upgraded to HAD standard.

Germany on the other hand had always indented that the helicopter that would meet the PAH-2 requirements to purely fulfil an anti-tank role, PAH-2 (panzerabwehrhubschrauber) literally meaning anti-tank helicopter 2. The HAP was never trialled by Germany nor ever seriously considered for adoption; it was made purely to fulfil the French requirements of the program. The HAC meanwhile was based on the UHT (or the PAH-2 as it was known at that point) and not the other way around. There was an attempt to expand the role of the UHT to include infantry support with the retrofit of the RMK 30, but this was scrapped due to budget cuts.

As for an Australian or Commonwealth tree, if Gaijin wants to implement one as some point, then fine, but that doesn’t exclude the possibility of these vehicles coming to existing trees in the meantime. They can always be moved over as with the Israeli, Swedish, and Italian vehicles.

And as @x_Shini_ has already pointed out, the report for the missing mistral on the UHT has already been accepted. There are both images with it equipped as well as being listed in the UHT manual, though this is still classified I believe.

3 Likes

Ah great u still had a picture liying around, the old forum pictures are broken

we reviewed the pictures with a mod who was kinf enough ask for the knowledge of the french discord server, and the answer is those were all stingers not mistrals…

1 Like

@Godvana is the one that got the information about it not me

if you have a better picture of the side to look at the letters ID, that would be great, as I remember prototypes to have one side with german decals and the other side with the french ones

Edit : fond the othe side of that prototype

2 Likes

i would argue those are completly different helicopters, yours is black while godvanas has the typical green of the german tigers