General Japanese & Thai Ground Forces Discussion HQ

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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5041

Hoping to see this soon with the object 478du8 as well🤞

2 Likes
5042

I have been reading through the Type 74 Tank specifications and found multiple potential modeling inaccuracies in the in-game Type 74. However, I’m not sure whether some of these differences reflect in-game conventions or simplifications made for gameplay or balancing, rather than actual modeling errors.

Hydraulic Suspension

Spoiler

According to the specifications, the hydraulic suspension can tilt the hull by ±6° forward and backward. However, based on my in-game testing, the in-game tilt limit seems smaller.

Is there any way to check the suspension tilt limit from datamine?

Gunner Optics Zoom

Spoiler

In WT, the Type 74 has gunner optics with 7.4x – 8.0x zoom and NVD capability.

However, according to the official specifications, the gunner’s optical equipment is as follows:

Optics System Zoom NVD
Gunner aiming periscope Telescopic 8x No
Gunner aiming periscope Observation 1x No
Direct telescopic sight Daytime 8x No
Direct telescopic sight Nighttime 9.6x Yes

I’m not sure how this should be represented in game.
The most realistic implementation would be to give 1x – 8x zoom for the gunner, and a forced switch to 9.6x when using NVD.
The simplest alternative might be to give the gunner 1x – 8x zoom with NVD available at both magnifications.
If the periscope is ignored for some reason, the gunner should get 8.0x zoom without NVD, and 9.6x zoom with NVD.

Commander NVD (Debuff)

Spoiler

There appears to be no commander NVD in real life, unless I’m missing something.

Ammo Stowage

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Below is a summary of ammo stowage capacities and locations.

in-game Original Type 74 Type 74 B – G
Hull ammo rack 30 30 28
Loading assistance device 4 Located below the gun breech (Not enough source)
Floor ammo rack 4 6 Located below the gun breech in-game, likely IRL too.
Ammo rack on turret basket 7 7 7 Located at the left side of the turret in-game , but likely incorrect correct
Turret bustle ammo rack 9 9 9

The number of rounds stored in the hull for the C, E, F, and G variants is clearly incorrect.

Thanks to skultew1234, confirmed to be correct.
The 7-round ammo rack on the left side of the turret in-game likely corresponds to “ammo rack on the turret basket”. However, based on video footage, there seems to be no ammo in that location in reality. Therefore, the in-game placement seems inaccurate, and I’m not sure where this rack is actually located.

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Interior photos or documentation showing ammo rack positions, especially the one on the turret basket, would be very helpful.
Correcting the position of the ammunition could slightly improve survivability.

Heavy Machine Gun Traverse Limit

Spoiler

The specifications state that the heavy machine gun can traverse 360°. However, it is limited to 180° to the left and 80° to the right.
Some roof-mounted machine guns in WT can turn 360° regardless of hatch position, so the Type 74 should theoretically be capable of the same.

I suspect that current limitation exists because a part of the HMG mount interferes with the commander’s hatch. If I could prove that this section can be rotated upwards when the MG is elevated, the devs might allow it 360° horizontal traverse. This change would make anti-air combat slightly easier.

Gun Depression Limit (Debuff)

Spoiler

According to the specifications, the horizontal traverse range in which the maximum gun depression of –6° is available appears to be narrower than in the current in-game model.

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Rangefinder Distance Limit (Debuff)

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The minimum and maximum measurable distances are 300 m and 3000 m according to the specifications. However, the in-game minimum distance is 200 m, and there seems to be no upper limit.

Breech Shape

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In a drawing from the specifications, the gun breech looks larger than the current in-game model?

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Smoke Grenades

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According to the specifications, the Type 74 carries 12 smoke grenades onboard. This suggests that the tank should be able to reload the smoke grenade launchers once, even outside capture points.

However, as far as I know, there is no vehicle in WT that can reload external smoke grenade launchers. I’m not sure whether this is due to an in-game convention, or simply because the total grenade stowage capacity of other vehicles is not known.

Community Bug Reporting System (Incorrect Smoke Grenade Count on Arietes(MBT)/Centauros)

Not a bug. Many tanks have smoke grenades in their hulls for reloading smoke grenade launchers. At the moment there are no such mechanics in the game, but perhaps they will appear in the future.

List of Specifications

Spoiler

Below is a list of Type 74 specifications. Both provisional and finalized versions are available online.

I’m quite surprised by the number of differences between the in-game model and the official specifications. I’m planning to report them one by one, but it will take some time.

4 Likes
5043

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This ammo rack positions can be seen on your photo. Rounds are missing and because of it mounts were tilted up for more space

4 Likes
5044

Thanks! I was wondering what they were.

1 Like
5045

You should make a Machinery of War thread for these

1 Like
5046

A lot of vehicles have gun optics purposely incorrectly modeled. Per Gaijin’s own reasoning, it would be “overpowered” if tanks could have both null (1x) and high (8x~) zoom.

2 Likes
5047

x1 is mostly not aiming sight and just for overview

5048

I created a new topic.

Thanks! I replied to you in the new thread.

2 Likes
5049

Been messing with the camouflage localization a bit which has made me actually look into Japanese camouflages.

Are any of the in-game disruptive camouflages actually real? The blot is clearly fake, but both the brown-yellow and the brown-olive-yellow lines also seem to be fake. They look like they’re supposed to be the post-1942 camouflages once they were actually standardized, but neither of them match the specifications I have found and I haven’t been able to find any photographs of these patterns.

The brown-yellow lines almost seem accurate, but the karekusairo yellow should be tsuchi kusairo instead, and the tsuchi kusairo is found on the brown-olive-yellow lines but in that case the karekusairo shouldn’t be included since it was supposed to be discontinued by 1942.

I also had trouble figuring out what willow green actually is, but it looks like there were two variations of kusairo? With the willow green representing a far more saturated form of used in some of the Pacific islands, while normal regulations called for the kusairo present on the standard camouflages of Imperial Japanese tanks. Though, this then makes me confused about what the early winter is supposed to be, because while I have found the photographs of the Japanese tanks in Manchukuo with the improvised white camouflage, I don’t get why the willow green kusairo is the base instead of the normal kusairo.

The only camouflages that seem at all accurate as the standard camouflages, the warship gray, which I think is supposed to be called silver grey (shirubaagureeiro?) instead, used on SNLF vehicles, and the brown which is just tsuchi iro.

Also the winter camouflage is actually a postwar camouflage but I already knew that.

1 Like
5050

Am a bit late to the party,

Afaik the AAM-4 has never been seen equipped on the standard / deployed F-4EJ Kai’s.
To my current knotits avionics does not support the necessary equipment to use and guide the AAM-4 Effectively.

There are a couple sources (albeit very similar in what they say) is that an F-4EJ Kai from the ADTW (Air Development Test Wing) squadron have tested th an (X)AAM-4 from an F-4EJ Kai
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Although my personal thoughts, I tend to believe that an F-15J or an F-2 was used for the testing the (X)AAM-4 an the F-4EJ Kai was used as an chaser aircraft to record the tests.

8 Likes
5051

I submitted a bug report regarding the Type 60 ATM’s rocket motor performance.
The sustainer thrust is too low, and if the in-game Type 64 corresponds to the B variant, the booster thrust is too high.

in-game Type 64 (original) Type 64 (B)
Booster thrust 1606 N 784 N – 1960 N 784 N – 1470 N
Booster total impulse 1,284.8 Ns 1274 ± 196 Ns 1274 ± 196 Ns
Sustainer thrust 37.98 N 88.2 N – 186.2 N 78.4 N – 176.4 N
Sustainer total impulse 949.5 Ns 2156 ± 294 Ns more than 1862 Ns

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/HKhy6VUEq88C

If this report is accepted, the maneuverability during flight would improve slightly. And if the booster thrust is reduced, the minimum controllable distance would also decrease.

3 Likes
5052

Are the Malaysian armored forces really that small? I’ve been trying to make a list of them and I can’t find more than 20 vehicles that would be applicable in-game.

Malaysian Vehicles
  • Armored Cars
    • Daimler Mk. II
    • AML-60
    • AML-90
  • Fire Support Vehicles
    • Scorpion 90 (differs from Indonesian Scorpion 90 by lacking roof SM3 machine gun and using Cockerill Mk. III instead of Cockerill Mk. IIIM-A1)
  • Armored Personnel Carriers
    • Condor (identical to Indonesian Condor, from what I can tell)
  • Infantry Fighting Vehicles
    • Stormer (w/ FVT 900 turret)
    • ACV-300 Adnan (w/ Sharpshooter turret)
    • SIBMAS AFSV-90
    • AV8 (w/ Sharpshooter turret)
    • AV8 (w/ LCT 30 turret)
    • AV8 (w/ LCT 30 ATGW turret)
  • Main Battle Tanks
    • T-84 (Object 478DU8, failed Malaysian export)
    • PT-91M
  • Multiple Launcher Rocket Systems
    • Astros II Mk 6 (w/ SS-30 & SS-40 rockets)
  • Anti-Tank Missile Carriers
    • Mercedes Benz G-Class w/ Metis-M
    • ACV-300 Adnan (w/ Baktar Shikan)
  • Surface-to-Air Missile Systems
    • GK-M1 w/ Starstreak LML (either solo or as multiple-vehicle system w/ ForceShield, TEL for TG MIL TGS w/ CONTROLMaster 200)
    • VAMTAC w/ Dzhigit “Igla-S”
    • VAMTAC w/ Starstreak MMS (either solo or as multiple-vehicle system w/ ForceShield, TEL for TG MIL TGS w/ CONTROLMaster 200, identical to Indonesian VAMTAC w/ Starstreak MMS)
    • TG MIL TGS w/ CONTROLMaster 200 (as multiple-vehicle system w/ ForceShield, TADS for GK-M1 or VAMTAC w/ Starstreak LML/MMS, identical to Indonesian TG MIL TGS w/ CONTROLMaster 200)
3 Likes
5053

It has the worse Mark 3 gun, rather than the Mark 3 A1 of the Indo Scorps. The Mark 3 A1 allows firing of APFSDS

5054

Yup

5055

I tried my hand at it a while back as well. There’s not a lot, but what is there is generally very interesting.

1 Like
5056

Question:
I am doing some digging concerning infantry though this is for ground forces I am looking for post war equipment 1945 to 1955 give and take that where used by security / police services (aka the early not a military military) I am formatting a squad suggestion so the equipment does not need to be like a tank.
For example the use of the Japanese Civil police Ha Go 1950 plus Morris C8 truck
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post war Ho-Ha
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this poor thing
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They had bazooka
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some Type 100 submachine gun
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also some Arisaka rifles

This will basically be a National Safety Force/National Police Reserve though this will be a bit of a chimera and be sort of like my police (SWAT TEAM Squads idea “other thing”)

1 Like
5057

I can’t find the upgraded Condors with a 20 mm. Do you have a photograph of it? The only ones I can find are a “c-pattern” with a 7.62-mm gatling and a “n-pattern” with a 7.62-mm machine gun.

2 Likes
5058

Yeah the 20mm armed variant wasn’t based on the Chaiseri / DefTech variant, just the normal Condor.

At the time I got some information wrong and misinterpreted it as also being an N-Pattern variant because it lacked the distinct LFP add on of the C-Pattern. I disregarded the basic N-Pattern before actually looking at the differences.

5059

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This one?

5060

This one is sadly just a basic Condor. It’s very lightly modified only because the Malaysian one adds more smoke launcher coverage.

The Chaiseri / DefTech upgrades essentially changed the whole vehicle with new engine, suspension, upgraded armor, etc. but also (what I missed making my old list) they specifically added new open turrets for either an M134 or M2 .50 cal. There was no 20mm option. At the same time there was also an upgraded Scorpion presented that used the 20mm cannon instead, likely intended to replace the 20mm Condor entirely.

But all of this was in 2017, and I don’t think any further Condors were upgraded at aside from the UAV carrier also shown off alongside the others.

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