Gen 4.5+ capabilities should be modeled before the addition of 5th gen

Should Gen 4.5+ capabilities such as sensor fusion, firing through IRST and ESM, and low-observability be modeled?

  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

According to certain translators, BVVD was asked on the recent live-stream, “With 5th gen, you said it would be in second half of 2026?” and BVVD replied “Well the second half of 2026 didn’t end yet”.

While some of the playerbase and Gaijin seem to be eager to add 5th gen jets this year, there is a very big and strong concern surrounding the addition of 5th gen jets with a few months left before year’s end.


Currently Gen 4.5+ aircraft are not appropriately modeled to contest 5th gen jets

Throughout the history of Warthunder, the jump to the next generation of aircraft were not made until the current generation of aircraft and their capabilities were substantially modeled, this provided an easier and smoother transition to the capabilities of the next generation. For instance, late 3rd generation aircraft had received pulse-doppler and more complex radar modeling that would also be seen in early 4th generation aircraft. The same cannot be said here for late 4th generation aircraft compared with 5th generation aircraft.

Why Gen 4.5+ Capabilities should be modeled

Most if not all tech trees in-game have a way to obtain a 5th generation aircraft whether from domestic service or through subtree additions, but for a majority of the tech trees this looks to be through the F-35 aircraft. The F-35 aircraft is a very capable modern jet but for one reason or another, to many players this aircraft comes second to a domestic design Gen 4.5+ aircraft such as the Rafale or Eurofighter or the Gripen E. The F-35 Lightning II jet is a formidable aircraft but is suboptimal from the view of many players who do not wish to play a vehicle that will likely be spread freely across many trees, and lack the distinct diversity and therefore it is imperative that Gen 4.5+ capabilities are modeled so that players can continue to enjoy their preferred vehicles at the top battle-rating against 5th gen aircraft.

The majority of capabilities surrounding Gen 4.5+ aircraft have yet to be modeled
Part 1: Sensor Fusion

The literature available on Gen 4.5+ aircraft show that these aircraft have a great amount of capabilities, these are not limited to solely Gen 4.5+ aircraft, and more often some of these capabilities are available on Gen 5, but they are heavily marketed alongside Gen 4.5+ aircraft.

One of these capabilities is sensor fusion.

Sensor fusion is the concept that aircraft are able to operate different sensors such as radar, IRST, and ESM and combine the different sources of the sensors in order to produce a more accurate picture as well as provide a higher quality of targeting data.

Spoiler


For the sake of this topic, we are only talking about sources of sensor data from the current available sensors in-game which consists of ESM, radar, and IRST. Currently in-game you can only utilize one of these sensors at a time when you should be able to utilize all 3 at the same time. Sensor fusion also means that the limitation or disadvantages in each of these sensors should always be evaluated by the aircraft and the more accurate sensors should be preferred.

For instance, radar has more inaccurate bearing resolution than IRST, so the information on a target from IRST + Radar combined should produce more accurate bearing resolution on targets than an aircraft with only radar.

Part 2: Low-Observability Characteristics

Aircraft such as the Eurofighter and Rafale are claimed to have low-observability characteristics or LO. This should not be confused with very low-observability characteristics or VLO that is associated with 5th gen aircraft. Both aircraft have an accepted report for their signature reduction characteristics and both remain unimplemented as of currently. While no gen 4.5+ aircraft have an internal bay and they also produce higher returns with a weapons loadout, reduced RCS would still provide some advantages against 5th gen in that chaff is more effective when defeating radar missiles.

Spoiler


Part 3: ESM and Optronics

5th gen aircraft are hard to target with radar by nature of their inherent low-observability characteristics. Measures against aircraft through the use of other spectrums such as IRST and ESM helps provide avenues to neutralize 5th gen aircraft and lowers the advantages associated with 5th gen stealth aircraft.

Being able to utilize different sensors at the same time means that radar, IRST, and ESM are all able to keep track of a threatening stealth aircraft even as it moves around the battlefield. A stealth aircraft moving from being front aspect to side-aspect in the notch means that it could result in a lower likelihood of being tracked in radar to a higher likelihood in being tracked in IRST due to the engine showing.

Currently firing through the IRST still is not modeled yet despite developers being aware that this is a possibility.

A threatening 5th gen stealth aircraft emitting radar emissions realistically should be able to be fired upon with ESM even at ranges where the stealth aircraft itself is not yet detected on radar. This mechanic is not possible in-game yet either.

Spoiler

8 Likes

Bumping this up, with so many Gen 4.5 aircraft in War Thunder now. I think whether with the second minor update this Fall or Winter major update would be great to improve QoL of Gen 4.5 aircraft.

2 Likes

Probably also throw ECM in there, especially with the controls for TRDs being seen

3 Likes

We have many 4.5s in-game already.
& those features are in development, or in the case of sensor fusion partially here where it matters.

These features aren’t needed before gen-5s, they’re needed when gen-5s drop… which they will.

Not the point of the post.

Source of any confirmation that they’re in development?

Official news category & announcements.

Could you give a link where they confirmed these features were in development?

I cannot. I didn’t save them for the future, but they’re in that category on the forum.
Could be in CMs specifically.
Either way they’re confirmed.

I don’t have the time to re-look for the specific links otherwise I would’ve posted them.

TRD is actually something that would benefit 5th gen like F-35 more than 4th gen in this case, because the TRD multiplies the effectiveness when on a 5th gen compared to late 4th gens.

I remember reading all of them, it has never been confirmed. Only thing remotely close was bringing more “air technologies” but that could have been the recent salvo aiming points and some of the other newly introduced air to ground mechanics.

But I take the post being things to add to 4.5 gens before adding 5th gens .

That should include full defensive suites.

Such as ECM, TRDs, proper CMs, and maybe even JRDs.

Because if you have to defend against a threat you cant fire back at, you should at least have every tool available to defend with

1 Like

Fair enough, it is. I’ll see if I can add a part 4, ECM.

Makes sense.

2 Likes

not to mention special stuff like BriteCloud that is being put on F-35

wouldnt this end up in 5th gen’s favor regardless

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They’re already going to model 5th gen’s stealth, and so yes missiles will have reduced effectiveness against 5th gens, this is naturally a given. The question is should we also make sure some of this benefit is also given to Gen 4.5+ or completely omitted which would be worst case scenario?

2 Likes

Ive seen nothing covering sensor fusion in any thread. They cant even get external IRST pods to work or even the ability to have a FLIR and Tpod work at the same time. (though some aircraft like Javelin do have 2x radars at once)

RCS modeling is WIP, but unknown if its coming to everything. They may prioritise some aircraft over others. Like im doubting the Tornado would ever get their RCS reduction things.

ESM has only so far been added to soviet aircraft, no word or acknowledgement ive seen for it being added to anything bluefor

1 Like

Unfortunately that is the case for any countermeasure; the lower the signature of the vehicle the easier it is for a countermeasure to provide a larger, more alluring signal to the incoming threat and mask one’s own vehicle. Theres 2 ways gaijin could handle this:

  • either they could add these features now, to the relevant vehicles, and then they’re ready to be added onto future aircraft

  • or they can be add with the advent of G5s, where gaijin will inevitably prioritise the shiny new vehicles, forget about the 4.5s entirely, and roll the features out more widely over the next 6-12 months during which g4.5s will be unplayable and the capability gap will be unfathomably large. It’s happened a million times before.

2 Likes

no, you would have to add them going down pretty far, it would be a cascading effect of aircraft becoming OP so other jets would need to get it or have huge BR changes

They have to be added eventually. Might as well do it early to keep that cascade short and easy to handle.

i agree on that, but imo they should start from the bottom going up to reduce the effects on balance

Let alone fix the teething problem against aircraft that arent necessarily going to be massively different overall with it properly modeled.

I can definetly see the F-22 flip flopping between being totally invisible to anything and everything, and the RCS reduction doing bugger all

For some planes yes, though the EFT and Rafale should bring 5th Gens upon their buffs