If the shot bounces, also lighter shells from SPAAs.
I agree, vehicle characteristics should be what the game is balanced around. Not player skill. Especially if that skill is hidden from the playerbase.
I didn’t say they’re balanced well, I said the statistics they’re balanced on are far more than just winrates.
Well if they’re not balanced well there’s obvioulsy a problem right ?
I’m sure there are far more things in the stats than just the winrate but please just face it, it doesn’t work and leads to ridiculous situations.
Just look at the EBR 1951 and the sdkfz 234/2. The kfz is better in every single way expect for turret rotation and yet it’s sitting at 3.3 when the EBR is at 5.3 ?? Why the hell has that happened ? The EBR can’t pen anything even from the side while the Kfz does a better job even at 5.3
I have no idea what you’re talking about. The Sd.Kfz. 234/2 is undertiered, it should be 3.7 or 4.0, but the EBR most certainly better.
In what way ?
The gun is terrible and can’t pen anything else than light tanks and i’m not even talking about the fact that 5.3 is constantly being uptiered to 6.0 minimum.
Speed never exceeds 70 and is terrible in cross-country.
armour is inexistent and any 50cal (which every american and soviet tanks have at this BR) will wreck you.
The tank should have two drivers like that swedish tank which i forgot the name but no the second one is just a machine gunner for some reason.
You get what i’m talking about or still not ?
The EBR is overtiered, it should be 4.7, but it is better than the 234/2. The speed is still more than good enough, the armor doesn’t need to be good because it’s not a brawler, it’s flanker, and the gun is objectively better than on the 234/2. It’s reload is 3 seconds longer but it has over double the expolosive mass in its shell and while its flat penetration is 2 mm lower, it has better angled penetration which is the penetration that actually counts.
And all 3 are closer to each other than not, with Strf 9040 BILL & M3A3 being direct analogues with each other as well as BMP-2M, and VCC-80/30.
Yes 4.7 would be clearly the right BR.
Yes it’s quite better than the Kfz but by a small margin. I’ve tested it a lot and in a 5.3 battle i prefer to take the german one as the gun is way more reliable.
The EBR is really bad in any situation because it’s just as fast as its tracked competitor while having no penetration at all and worse armour
Still going to have the issue of having gaijin sitting there choosing brs by looking at a stat card. This is how they choose the inital brs.
If you want them to move the ebr 1954 back to 4.7 i wouldnt mind. That was where they thought it would be facing similar performance vehicles. And 279, vidar, ect.
The algorithm they use is inherently flawed because for whatever data they put in, it never considers the actual stats of the vehicles it’s balancing. This is what leads to those hilarious situations where identical vehicles are at wildly different BRs in different nations. Who else remembers the German M48 being 7.0 while the American one was 7.3. And then they wanted to move it down to 6.7. I remember.
If I had to guess, they do absolutely no stat normalization on whatever statistics they’re using. The most basic version is just to compare the winrate of a player to their winrate in a given vehicle. If you see a vehicle with a 40% winrate, that’s an issue. But, if you then look at the stats and notice it’s primarily being played by players with a 40% winrate, then it’s clear there’s no actual imbalance there. Same on the flipside, 60% winrate players achieving a 60% winrate in a vehicle indicates near perfect balance.
Additionally, Gaijin needs to do more to help teach players how to play the game. The current level of tutorialization in game is laughable. No wonder many new players struggle with how to use energy fighters, when the game never teachs them what they are, how they work, which are which and how to play them. When a new player unlocks a new vehicle, outside of googling for guides, how are they supposed to know what to do with them? The stats window is needless complex, offers severals stats not useful to anyone, doesn’t make any useful comparisons to other vehicles you’ll be fighting, and doesn’t even tell you what basic playstyle to use.
This way, we might see an actual solution to the longstanding problem of minor nations with overall better player ending up with hilariously overtiered vehicles, and major nations having the opposite problem.
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in all fairness, Russia pumps out a lot of tanks and tank designs. US is the same but with planes.
All good - except you don’t actually know whether Gaijin is doing that or not… because no-one except them knows didly-squat about what they use and what they don’t.
I’m just interpretting it off what I can see happening. The only explanation for them attempting to put identical vehicles at wildly different BRs is them looking at stats with little to no objectivity. “Vehicle X fell below (arbitrary stat limit), therefore we need to lower it’s BR” and vice versa. Without taking any of the important context into the equation. I can’t fathom how they’d come to the conclusion that identical vehicles need different BRs otherwise.
Speaking of the M48 situation, I do remember one part of that where Gaijin came out and said (Well, told Oxy) that the German M48 was performing 4x worse than the American and Chinese M48s, despite being very slightly better than them. Indicating that yes, they do just look at vehicle performance alone and are quite happy to ignore all context and allow a BR gap just based on the stats alone.
I wonder if on some level if this is intentional? Like, it’s a fairly obvious at this point that the average new player will likely gravitate to one of the three major nations, which in turn lowers their relative player skill compared to minor nations. Is this their way to help raise major nation win rates? Again, I’d point to the woeful tutorials and lack of player direction as the main culprits for why newer players suffer so, but this is certainly easier.
M24 should definitely be 4.0 at least, I’d probably wait to see how it fares at 4.0 before pushing it to 4.3, but I think it’d also be okay at 4.3 as well.
AMX 13 F11 should definitely not be above the M24, Same gun and shell, but no stab, not much faster, less gun depression, no reverse speed. no .50 cal for planes/light vehicles. its definitely less effective at the same job as the M24, I don’t really see any reason why it shouldn’t be 3.7, or if above that, it should be at least 0.3 lower than the M24.
Glad you adopted my take on M24.
I didnt read your take on the M24, I’ve thought it could be higher for years.
The reason being that these are my stats with it:
With about 80% of those games were using it first spawn in a 4.7/5.0 lineup.
Because for some reason France and other small nations have a majority of good players using their vehicles which leads to stupid situations like the M24/AMX FL11 and TPK/BTR-ZD
I main japan, trust me, I share the pain and suffering.
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haha, propietary information? Are you saying that my own gameplay data is somehow a trade secret that should never fall into the hands of the competition? That’s nonsense. Countless games reveal their winrate data to the community. Transparency has never resulted in a negative impact, unless you want to be lazy with game balance devolp. You should see how popular https://www.op.gg/ is
AMX-13 FL11 is correctly BR’d, but M24 is indeed under-BR’d.
And TPK & BTR-ZD are obviously correctly BR’d. TPK having far more ammo which matters more against aircraft.